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Old 28-11-2015, 06:21   #151
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Re: ARC 2015

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post

The difference is that I am not chasing any rabbit while you are chasing one (...)

We don't cruise for a living but for pleasure (...)
So, are we, or are we not?

I chase happiness, you chase pleasure. Not all that far apart, even if one is philosophical while the other one physiological, in nature.

Meanwhile Bliss II has moved towards the head of the peletone. And the Neel seems to be back to a good clip too. Talanta does not seem to care much about that missing rudder either.

Today finish between Nix, Lir, el Gato (I think) Bepa went one tack to far likely.

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Old 28-11-2015, 08:21   #152
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Re: ARC 2015

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I think this thread should be renamed, Polux is always right. Make it easier to know what it really is about
In fact the above has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, only a friendly philosophical discussion with B.

The object of this thread is about the sailing performance of many different types of boats on the ARC and the ARC+.

It is about reality and reality is not a matter of opinion. if you disagree with reality or anything I had said it would help the discussion if you said what is your disagreement, not in general terms but on particular ones, precising regarding what and why.
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Old 28-11-2015, 09:25   #153
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Re: ARC 2015

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So, are we, or are we not?

I chase happiness, you chase pleasure. Not all that far apart, even if one is philosophical while the other one physiological, in nature.

Meanwhile Bliss II has moved towards the head of the peletone. And the Neel seems to be back to a good clip too. Talanta does not seem to care much about that missing rudder either.

Today finish between Nix, Lir, el Gato (I think) Bepa went one tack to far likely.

b.
Happiness or pleasure are not so different. I like to have sail pleasure but I am happy cruising while the weather does not become nasty and sours that happiness. Then I am more happy at the fireplace, on internet and with the family, waiting the weather to become nice again.

Not very different I think. If some difference exists is that you tend to generalize the type of cruising that makes you happy to everybody while many will not be happy with that kind of cruising and I am not talking personally (I sail a lot if compared with the average user of a cruising boat and the average user of a cruising boat is cruising too, while it is using it for cruising). Different boats for different types of cruising.

Let's return to the ARC:

Yes, amazingly the Pogo40, without only a rudder is not losing much. Maybe it is only damaged, not completely broken. You have more information about that?

The Nell 45 seemed always fast to me and it is still the best sailed multihull. I would love to know the weight of that boat and should have lots of downwind sails to have a IRC bigger than the one of the bigger Outremer 51.

The BD80 (Bliss II) sails at the same pace of the Advanced 80, that is just a bit ahead, even if theoretically it should be fast. Regarding big luxury yachts the faster is the 100ft Southern wind (no wonder) but it is really on other division. The Smaller Southern wind, a Smaller 72 is not doing so good, on a Southern course.

The Marteen 68 that had a slow beginning is now going really fast chasing the bigger 100ft yacht while the Carroll Marine 60, a cruiser racer that is almost a race boat, is going as fast. I like very much the Marteen 68: Fast beautiful with a good cruising interior....and expensive

The fastest Outremer 51 is following a central course while all the other that were sailing wit went North. Does not seem a good option to me, the 2nd Outremer went really North and that looks a better option to me.
The weaker winds are arriving and while the 1st Outremer has ahead 12/13K winds, the one sailing North will have 16/17k winds.

Several Grand Soleil going fast.

Regarding the ARC+ the first will be a X612, the 2nd a Swan 651, the 3rd a Catana 462 and for 4th there are three boats fighting for it: A Shipman 62, a Fountain Pajot 67 and a Catana 582.

The really pissing thing about the ARC is the lack of information. I would love to know why the Shipman 62, by far the fastest boat on the race on the first leg and till middle of the second, is now going slower, slower than the other two, meaning that the 4th it will be a cat. Maybe he has blew all downwind sails, maybe something else. We will know only when they arrived.

The Lagoon 38 has made a fantastic passage and it will be arriving in 10th or 11th, being the 4th cat.
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Old 28-11-2015, 10:59   #154
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Re: ARC 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post

Happiness or pleasure are not so different. (...)

Let's return to the ARC:

Yes, amazingly the Pogo40, without only a rudder is not losing much. Maybe it is only damaged, not completely broken. You have more information about that?

Regarding the ARC+ the first will be a X612, the 2nd a Swan 651, the 3rd a Catana 462 and for 4th there are three boats fighting for it: A Shipman 62, a Fountain Pajot 67 and a Catana 582.
I think they are misleadingly similar. Few people chasing pleasure end up happy. Few happy people chase pleasure. Looking from outside, it is difficult to tell them apart though - both smile.

I think Pogo people have a blog. You can read their content by clicking the gray exclamation mark on their tracker (mouse over, then look for the mark on the right side of the pop-up window).

To be the first, first you have to finish ;-) I think if Nix wins, it will not be his first (?) I remember him being either the first or somewhere at the very top before.

The Catana is 472. I know both this boat and the bigger one (Timaios). The 472 is from the era they had that Ocean series. There was a 43 (or 42?) in the series that I always look at with much sentiment - a nearly perfect world cruiser for a very minimalist oriented man.

Cheers,
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Old 28-11-2015, 11:13   #155
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Re: ARC 2015

Bepa blew it sailing that long off center tack. This is how one sails being far in the pack. While at the head, stay in the same wind and work on your pure speed and VMG.

When I look at the second pack, I think what the owners of those Oysters 825 are thinking. One of them is pressing her pretty hard. Not sure he is reading the CF forum now ;-)

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Old 28-11-2015, 12:42   #156
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Re: ARC 2015

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Bepa blew it sailing that long off center tack. This is how one sails being far in the pack. While at the head, stay in the same wind and work on your pure speed and VMG.

When I look at the second pack, I think what the owners of those Oysters 825 are thinking. One of them is pressing her pretty hard. Not sure he is reading the CF forum now ;-)

b.
I don't believe that they have not a problem on the Shipman 62 (Bepa) they are making less 1 K than boats that were slower. The routing they took seemed good to me, better wind angle and all but they could not make the speed of other boats. Probably out of downwind sails.

And something odd regarding the first Fountain Pajot 67 that is not moving on the tracker. Some glitch on the tracker or they have a huge problem. Probably the first.

Regarding the 825 several had already crossed the Atlantic being pushed (last year) but then I remember that one of them was Polina Star III

I don't really know what to think about that. The thickness of the hull that the skipper says the boat has on the bottom seems impossible to me but I don't believe they are crazy on Oyster and they have many years building reliable yachts.

I really don't know what to think about that, don't know if the accident happened due to the increase of length of the boat without the proper reinforcements being made or if Oyster has really a big problem on his hands. I am very curious about the results of expert survey of the boat and about the causes of the accident.
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Old 28-11-2015, 16:06   #157
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Re: ARC 2015

That tack of Bepa was all wrong. Tactically. Perhaps it was dictated by (as you guess) a sail (likely the spinnaker) lost. I tried to click on their blog but nothing comes up - just a website with some art pictures and typography. Maybe a misplaced link. Maybe ARC will make some sort of comment on their website later. Maybe genakers are their weapon of choice and they lost on the swings what they made on the roundabouts. M&M Many maybes.

Who came in first BTW? Adrienne?

Any info why the big Pajot withdrew?

Corona Aq smoking. Going nearly her hull speed last 12 hours.

As for the other thread, we may never know. The experts are said to be hired and paid by Oyster (or else by the insurer). Whoever pays, keeps the findings. I do not know what flag that boat was but not having a govt body investigate the causes is outlandish.

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Old 28-11-2015, 18:40   #158
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Re: ARC 2015

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
That tack of Bepa was all wrong. Tactically. Perhaps it was dictated by (as you guess) a sail (likely the spinnaker) lost. I tried to click on their blog but nothing comes up - just a website with some art pictures and typography. Maybe a misplaced link. Maybe ARC will make some sort of comment on their website later. Maybe genakers are their weapon of choice and they lost on the swings what they made on the roundabouts. M&M Many maybes.

Who came in first BTW? Adrienne?

Any info why the big Pajot withdrew?

Corona Aq smoking. Going nearly her hull speed last 12 hours.

As for the other thread, we may never know. The experts are said to be hired and paid by Oyster (or else by the insurer). Whoever pays, keeps the findings. I do not know what flag that boat was but not having a govt body investigate the causes is outlandish.

b.
I don't think so. The first seems to have been the X612, than the Swan 651 (Adrienne) and the third seems to be the Fountain Pajot 67 and then the Catana 472.

The problem with the Fountain Pajot 67 was only an electronic one....on the tracker

But if it is like on the first leg and if the FP67 used the engine more than the Catana I doubt that he would maintain on compensated the first place among the cats.

Besides the Laurin 32 and the ones that arrived first there are other very well sailed boats on the ARC+, like the Southerly 49, the Lagoon 380 and the Halberg Rassy 352 are some of them.

It would be interesting to see who wins overall in compensated.

Regarding Oyster and the investigation they are in a dificult spot: it is obvious that something was very wrong and that the boat did not hit anything. They have to come out with an explanation and any explanation will be detrimental to Oyster but if the problem regards badly dimensioned keel structures or insufficient hull thickness and the problem regards the 825 too and they hide it under the rug it will be only a question of time before more accidents happen and then it would be much worse for Oyster.

The better approach will be probably a thoroughly investigation and if the problems regards the 825 also bring all of them to the shipyard for reinforcements before another accident happens.
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Old 29-11-2015, 04:56   #159
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Re: ARC 2015

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I chase happiness, you chase pleasure. Not all that far apart, even if one is philosophical while the other one physiological, in nature....
I think they are misleadingly similar. Few people chasing pleasure end up happy. Few happy people chase pleasure. Looking from outside, it is difficult to tell them apart though - both smile.
...
I agree with that but you are talking about short period pleasures and I am talking about other thing: The pleasure of sailing a fast boat for 1/3 of the year is hardly a short pleasure.

Yes, I have also a fast roadster that I use to cruise on land, preferably on mountains. I just like to cruise not only in what regards to wander among beautiful scenery lost villages and experience what different cultures have to offer in what regards vernacular architecture, traditional food and wine. Like on the boat I join the pleasure of cruising to the pleasure of driving a fast and responsible car on twisting roads.

Along my life many other pleasurable activities were developed almost all of them involved a long learning to develop the skill to be able to enjoy them. In the end, when we become older what gives us happiness is not only how you live now, but the family and friendship connections we have established through our life, the amount of very good memories one can enjoy and for that it was needed to have lived well and have experienced many pleasurable moments and activities through live, the kind of memories that even when you die will remain among your family and friends.

So, it is so different?

Regarding the ARC+ the Skipper of the X612 that arrived first said:

"Skipper Nico and crew on board were in great spirits having enjoyed their passage even under a reduced sail after ripping their main during reefing on day 9. ‘Constant tradewind conditions since we left Mindelo between 20-25 knots with occasional squalls and gusts blowing up to 35-40 knots. Even so we always had our sit down dinner! Albeit losing our second genoa and spinnaker we were able to keep up our speed and never got under 10 knots."

No doubt an amazing performance with a damaged main and regarding blown up downwind sails I bet they were not the only ones

After them come the Swan 651, the Fountain Pajot 67 and the Catana 472. They talk about one hour apart each of the boats.

Also arrived already the Shipman 62 that beat on the final sprint the Catana 582 (that has also arrived) and almost arriving and not far from the Catana 582 a surprisingly fast Oyster 575.

Very near and almost side by side an Halberg Rassy 54 and a Southerly 49. Big fight to the finish. Also very interesting to follow, the "fight" of the two boats that will arrive after those two, the Lagoon 380 and a Oyster 545.
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Old 29-11-2015, 05:23   #160
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Re: ARC 2015

On the ARC the best performance of the last days seems to be the one of a X572 and from the Oyster 48 light wave that are sailing at the same pace of the fastest Outremer 51, the Pogo 50 and a Baltic 56. On a southern course there are also a Baltic 64 going fast and in a lesser measure a Lagoon 52.

The wonder on the fleet continues to be the Luffe 37 that is among the fastest boats (and that means big boats) and the Wauquiez 40s that follows it.

The Neel 45 seems to have lost some of the advance to the fastest Outremer 51.
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Old 29-11-2015, 06:36   #161
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Re: ARC 2015

Other than the front running boats, those who are near the rhumbline will on Monday get swallowed up by a large light wind area. The boats who went south will start to do much better and move up the rankings, especially Triumph, Far Out and Bo Bridget
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Old 29-11-2015, 07:07   #162
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Re: ARC 2015

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I don't think so. The first seems to have been the X612, than the Swan 651 (Adrienne)
What you say is what it looked like on the tracker nearly till the end AND THEN BOOM, and have a look at the screen dump attached. I do not know the explanation. Must read ARC website see what they say.

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Old 29-11-2015, 07:24   #163
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Re: ARC 2015

YELLOWBRICK ODDITY

;-)

Yep. Looked up ARC homesite, clearly it is Nix.

BTW seen similar yellobrick artefacts during the start.

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Old 29-11-2015, 10:39   #164
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Re: ARC 2015

Yellowbrick is very inferior than what the French use as a tracker. I don't understand why the British and Australian use that tracker.

On the ARC the Oyster 575 arrived a while ago and that fight between the Halberg Rassy 54 and the Southerly 49 has been huge. The Southerly recovered almost a mile and is now just a mile behind. Probably the boats are seeing each other, with 36nm for the finish. They are 1st and 2nd on the Cruising class B.

Behind on the other close finish the Lagoon 380 seems to be losing distance over the Oyster 545.

More far away another close finish between a Leopard 44 and a Baltic 52. Behind three other will finish close, a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 54DS, a Fountain Pajot 57 and a Beneteau Ocenanis 54.
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Old 29-11-2015, 11:05   #165
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Re: ARC 2015

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Yellowbrick is very inferior than what the French use as a tracker. I don't understand why the British and Australian use that tracker.
It seems to me that the YB works very well in it's main task of tracking and in that respect it's miles better than Spot. What do the French use?

Looks like Team Brunel will be in before lunch tomorrow, beating most of the ARC+ fleet in.

I wonder how Leopards record from last year of 8 days 14 hours, 39 minutes and 51 seconds is looking. I assume the deadline is some time early on Monday morning GMT? Perhaps Brunel is too far out?
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