Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

[Dave_S]

I have never seen one, let alone two on a cat.

Not sure why not, with bigger sails all the way unfurled they flap around and loose the air and need to be held further out.

Secondly the poles seem to made far too heavy duty, the loads on them are not that great. Has anyone actually seen one bend or break.

I have a large reacher and a genoa, can I drop the main and have one on each side rather than using a lightweight spinnaker.

[Sberg]

Hi Dave.
We do this all the time when going close to dead down wind, with no poles. I bring the main halyard to the back of the boom and tighten the mainsheet as a ‘backstay’.
We don’t have a spinnaker so this is the best we can do. Definitely a good idea to run the sheets through blocks attached to the midship cleats to hold each sail out wider and down. I find it’s good out to about 160 degrees either side. I try to have the Genoa on the ‘upwind’ side, then it doesn’t gybe over.
It seems to give us a tad over half true wind speed. From about 12kn true is great. Before that it can flog a little, if the sea state is up a little.
You have a Waterline so I’d imagine you’d go better, unfortunately that can bring the apparent wind forward.
I’d be interested to know how it goes.

[billknny]

The theory is that cats are so fast, they can bring the apparent wind forward enough that reaching gives a better VMG than trying to sail dead downwind.

Certainly this is true on fast cats. I am not so sure on the cruising condomaran. Maybe, maybe not.

Most cats also do not have large genoas, but rather use a large and efficient mainsail for most of the drive. Poling out a small working jib is probably not worth the trouble.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I have never seen one, let alone two on a cat.

Not sure why not, with bigger sails all the way unfurled they flap around and loose the air and need to be held further out.

Secondly the poles seem to made far too heavy duty, the loads on them are not that great. Has anyone actually seen one bend or break.

I have a large reacher and a genoa, can I drop the main and have one on each side rather than using a lightweight spinnaker.

The loads on whisker poles are huge compression loads. Much higher than the loads on spinnaker poles. I have seen a 3" inner x 4" outer get some serious bending action..

[Dave852]

The theory of tacking downwind is great for racing crews but the average cruiser may not want to go any faster through the water and travel more miles to get where they are going with all the extra noise and stress on the boat and crew. We averaged 200 miles per day sailing dead downwind wing and wing with a 22' carbon wisker pole when over 15 knots or a kite when under. Here is a video of us sailing using a poled out jib and triple reefed main.
https://youtu.be/WFqm48C2BPk

The other benefit of Dead downwind in a cat would be the waves square on the stern, a sweet ride indeed.

[Dave_S]

Thanks all.

Originally Posted by Dave852

The theory of tacking downwind is great for racing crews but the average cruiser may not want to go any faster through the water and travel more miles to get where they are going with all the extra noise and stress on the boat and crew. We averaged 200 miles per day sailing dead downwind wing and wing with a 22' carbon wisker pole when over 15 knots or a kite when under. Here is a video of us sailing using a poled out jib and triple reefed main.
https://youtu.be/WFqm48C2BPk

The other benefit of Dead downwind in a cat would be the waves square on the stern, a sweet ride indeed.

Thanks


That's a decent swell in the video too.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Sberg

Hi Dave.
We do this all the time when going close to dead down wind, with no poles. I bring the main halyard to the back of the boom and tighten the mainsheet as a ‘backstay’.
We don’t have a spinnaker so this is the best we can do. Definitely a good idea to run the sheets through blocks attached to the midship cleats to hold each sail out wider and down. I find it’s good out to about 160 degrees either side. I try to have the Genoa on the ‘upwind’ side, then it doesn’t gybe over.
It seems to give us a tad over half true wind speed. From about 12kn true is great. Before that it can flog a little, if the sea state is up a little.
You have a Waterline so I’d imagine you’d go better, unfortunately that can bring the apparent wind forward.
I’d be interested to know how it goes.

Thanks

Do you have a topping lift as well ?

[Sberg]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Thanks

Do you have a topping lift as well ?

Yep. But the main halyard is dyneema core, 2:1 so it makes me feel safer.

[Davy J]

We carry a whisker pole. Don't actually use it that often. Also have a asymmetric spinnaker, so if the wind is light we use that. This photo was taken on downwind run in Hawk Channel in the Florida Keys:



It was probably one of the most relaxing sailing days for us ever. Set the main with a preventer, pole out the genoa, set the autopilot, kick back and relax.

[Paul Howard]

On my early (1992) Manta 38, before the self-tacking jib was introduced, our 120% heavy genoa was mostly used, often with double reefed mainsail if it was windy. For dead down wind I ran the genoa sheets through a snatch block on a pennant on the mid-ships cleat and then to the winch, wing and wing with a preventer on the main boom. This worked great, an easy and gentle ride, no roll or slam, speeds varied from about 8knots in the troughs up to high teens on the wave fronts. Autopilot would steer the boat like this for days.
I sometimes used a double headsail, setting a smaller flying jib to leeward of the genoa, sheeted to a similar block on the lee side mid-ships cleat. The mainsail had to be double reefed for the sail to stay full. It was only worth the trouble to set up if on a long passage when it would fly for a few days. I never used a whisker pole in the roughly 60,000 miles sailed on that boat.
I now have a Walter Greene Evenkeel 38 and the above does not work at all. This boat accelerates and slows too rapidly and the apparent wind shifts too much to get a good set on the sails that can be left hands off.

I set an asymetrical spinaker tacked to the windward bow and sheeted from mid-ships cleat on the lee side if the wind is about 12 knots or less. The boat will surf and cause the spinaker to collapse when coming off a steep wave. My solution for this thus far is to go wing and wing with the small self-tacking jib to the mid-ships cleat and slow the boat from its maximum speed to get comfort and hands off sailing on longer passages.
I do not think a pole would make any difference.

[Capt. Ray]

Most cruising catamarans will need a chute but you simply do not need poles. Simply rig a harness on pulleys stretched from one bow to the other with your tack. You'll have 20 to 30 feet lateral distance so with an asymmetrical spinnaker you'll have not the slightest problem sailing dead downwind. I've done this for over 5,000nm.

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I have never seen one, let alone two on a cat.

Not sure why not, with bigger sails all the way unfurled they flap around and loose the air and need to be held further out.

Secondly the poles seem to made far too heavy duty, the loads on them are not that great. Has anyone actually seen one bend or break.

I have a large reacher and a genoa, can I drop the main and have one on each side rather than using a lightweight spinnaker.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I have never seen one, let alone two on a cat.

Not sure why not, with bigger sails all the way unfurled they flap around and loose the air and need to be held further out.

Secondly the poles seem to made far too heavy duty, the loads on them are not that great. Has anyone actually seen one bend or break.

I have a large reacher and a genoa, can I drop the main and have one on each side rather than using a lightweight spinnaker.

Many cats have between 5m-7m beam. That for me means a whisker pole is necessary to stop the genoa flaping about during rolling or in lighter wind. Any cat with a decent sized headsail won't have enough beam to get the sail out in the same way it could with a pole.

That being said, some cats have such a tiny genoa they can get away without one, or just using a barber hauler of some sort, but isn't design moving back towards more aft-set masts, and larger genoas?

I'm just about to buy a whisker pole for my boat. Country to what has been said by the OP the compression loads are enough to snap two carbon fibre poles I've tried using. That concerns me, since my sailmaker has recommended a Selden telescopic pole, but it only has plastic catches to stop it compressing. Unfortunately a one piece pole is a complete no go. I can't imagine many boats have space for a 6m long tube.

[sailingchiro]

Ok, A few thoughts.
If flying a spinnaker (low wind days), use two lines on the tack and clew so you can switch between the two while jibing. Use the width of the bows instead of the pole. My boat is 20' wide. We use the windward bow for the tack and the aft leeward dock cleat on a block for the clew line. Then switch for jibing. WE have a block on each bow for each tack line and a block for each clew on each stern dock cleat.

2nd thought. (stronger wind) my furler has two tracks for two sails. We will use two headsails on the same furler for longer down wind runs. Basically to furl, the smaller sail is rolled inside the genoa. The two sails act as wing on wing on one furler.

3rd thought. Code zero on continuous furler on the bow sprit. Works well if wind that is stronger than spinnaker wants but not enough for the double headsail. Plus if we have enough wind we can actually use apparent wind to really move as the code zero is sheeted in while bringing the wind to our bow. The code zero furler takes some work to furl sail but can be used as wind increases. Code zero and tacking is the fastest but will travel further if wind directly on stern.

Other than that, I know nothing.