Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-02-2019, 18:56   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 992
Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

I have never seen one, let alone two on a cat.

Not sure why not, with bigger sails all the way unfurled they flap around and loose the air and need to be held further out.

Secondly the poles seem to made far too heavy duty, the loads on them are not that great. Has anyone actually seen one bend or break.

I have a large reacher and a genoa, can I drop the main and have one on each side rather than using a lightweight spinnaker.
__________________

__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 19:17   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: Schionning Wilderness 1320
Posts: 16
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

Hi Dave.
We do this all the time when going close to dead down wind, with no poles. I bring the main halyard to the back of the boom and tighten the mainsheet as a ‘backstay’.
We don’t have a spinnaker so this is the best we can do. Definitely a good idea to run the sheets through blocks attached to the midship cleats to hold each sail out wider and down. I find it’s good out to about 160 degrees either side. I try to have the Genoa on the ‘upwind’ side, then it doesn’t gybe over.
It seems to give us a tad over half true wind speed. From about 12kn true is great. Before that it can flog a little, if the sea state is up a little.
You have a Waterline so I’d imagine you’d go better, unfortunately that can bring the apparent wind forward.
I’d be interested to know how it goes.
__________________

Sberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 19:27   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,165
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

The theory is that cats are so fast, they can bring the apparent wind forward enough that reaching gives a better VMG than trying to sail dead downwind.

Certainly this is true on fast cats. I am not so sure on the cruising condomaran. Maybe, maybe not.

Most cats also do not have large genoas, but rather use a large and efficient mainsail for most of the drive. Poling out a small working jib is probably not worth the trouble.
billknny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 19:42   #4
Registered User
 
Dark Horse's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 86
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
I have never seen one, let alone two on a cat.

Not sure why not, with bigger sails all the way unfurled they flap around and loose the air and need to be held further out.

Secondly the poles seem to made far too heavy duty, the loads on them are not that great. Has anyone actually seen one bend or break.

I have a large reacher and a genoa, can I drop the main and have one on each side rather than using a lightweight spinnaker.

The loads on whisker poles are huge compression loads. Much higher than the loads on spinnaker poles. I have seen a 3" inner x 4" outer get some serious bending action..
Dark Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 19:48   #5
Registered User
 
Dave852's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tavernier, Fl
Boat: Outremer 50
Posts: 692
Send a message via Skype™ to Dave852
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

The theory of tacking downwind is great for racing crews but the average cruiser may not want to go any faster through the water and travel more miles to get where they are going with all the extra noise and stress on the boat and crew. We averaged 200 miles per day sailing dead downwind wing and wing with a 22' carbon wisker pole when over 15 knots or a kite when under. Here is a video of us sailing using a poled out jib and triple reefed main.
https://youtu.be/WFqm48C2BPk

The other benefit of Dead downwind in a cat would be the waves square on the stern, a sweet ride indeed.
Dave852 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 22:20   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 992
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

Thanks all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave852 View Post
The theory of tacking downwind is great for racing crews but the average cruiser may not want to go any faster through the water and travel more miles to get where they are going with all the extra noise and stress on the boat and crew. We averaged 200 miles per day sailing dead downwind wing and wing with a 22' carbon wisker pole when over 15 knots or a kite when under. Here is a video of us sailing using a poled out jib and triple reefed main.
https://youtu.be/WFqm48C2BPk

The other benefit of Dead downwind in a cat would be the waves square on the stern, a sweet ride indeed.

Thanks


That's a decent swell in the video too.
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 22:25   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 992
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sberg View Post
Hi Dave.
We do this all the time when going close to dead down wind, with no poles. I bring the main halyard to the back of the boom and tighten the mainsheet as a ‘backstay’.
We don’t have a spinnaker so this is the best we can do. Definitely a good idea to run the sheets through blocks attached to the midship cleats to hold each sail out wider and down. I find it’s good out to about 160 degrees either side. I try to have the Genoa on the ‘upwind’ side, then it doesn’t gybe over.
It seems to give us a tad over half true wind speed. From about 12kn true is great. Before that it can flog a little, if the sea state is up a little.
You have a Waterline so I’d imagine you’d go better, unfortunately that can bring the apparent wind forward.
I’d be interested to know how it goes.
Thanks

Do you have a topping lift as well ?
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 22:49   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: Schionning Wilderness 1320
Posts: 16
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
Thanks

Do you have a topping lift as well ?


Yep. But the main halyard is dyneema core, 2:1 so it makes me feel safer.
Sberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 02:35   #9
Registered User
 
Davy J's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tampa Bay
Boat: Gemini 105Mc
Posts: 271
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

We carry a whisker pole. Don't actually use it that often. Also have a asymmetric spinnaker, so if the wind is light we use that. This photo was taken on downwind run in Hawk Channel in the Florida Keys:



It was probably one of the most relaxing sailing days for us ever. Set the main with a preventer, pole out the genoa, set the autopilot, kick back and relax.
Davy J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 12:18   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 69
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

On my early (1992) Manta 38, before the self-tacking jib was introduced, our 120% heavy genoa was mostly used, often with double reefed mainsail if it was windy. For dead down wind I ran the genoa sheets through a snatch block on a pennant on the mid-ships cleat and then to the winch, wing and wing with a preventer on the main boom. This worked great, an easy and gentle ride, no roll or slam, speeds varied from about 8knots in the troughs up to high teens on the wave fronts. Autopilot would steer the boat like this for days.
I sometimes used a double headsail, setting a smaller flying jib to leeward of the genoa, sheeted to a similar block on the lee side mid-ships cleat. The mainsail had to be double reefed for the sail to stay full. It was only worth the trouble to set up if on a long passage when it would fly for a few days. I never used a whisker pole in the roughly 60,000 miles sailed on that boat.
I now have a Walter Greene Evenkeel 38 and the above does not work at all. This boat accelerates and slows too rapidly and the apparent wind shifts too much to get a good set on the sails that can be left hands off.

I set an asymetrical spinaker tacked to the windward bow and sheeted from mid-ships cleat on the lee side if the wind is about 12 knots or less. The boat will surf and cause the spinaker to collapse when coming off a steep wave. My solution for this thus far is to go wing and wing with the small self-tacking jib to the mid-ships cleat and slow the boat from its maximum speed to get comfort and hands off sailing on longer passages.
I do not think a pole would make any difference.
Paul Howard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 15:14   #11
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
Boat: Molenmaker Dutch steel gaff-rigged ketch
Posts: 92
Images: 2
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

Most cruising catamarans will need a chute but you simply do not need poles. Simply rig a harness on pulleys stretched from one bow to the other with your tack. You'll have 20 to 30 feet lateral distance so with an asymmetrical spinnaker you'll have not the slightest problem sailing dead downwind. I've done this for over 5,000nm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
I have never seen one, let alone two on a cat.

Not sure why not, with bigger sails all the way unfurled they flap around and loose the air and need to be held further out.

Secondly the poles seem to made far too heavy duty, the loads on them are not that great. Has anyone actually seen one bend or break.

I have a large reacher and a genoa, can I drop the main and have one on each side rather than using a lightweight spinnaker.
__________________
Captain Ray Thackeray
International Rescue Group, disaster relief and humanitarian aid by sea.
Capt. Ray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2019, 15:27   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Becalmed in the Med
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 799
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
I have never seen one, let alone two on a cat.

Not sure why not, with bigger sails all the way unfurled they flap around and loose the air and need to be held further out.

Secondly the poles seem to made far too heavy duty, the loads on them are not that great. Has anyone actually seen one bend or break.

I have a large reacher and a genoa, can I drop the main and have one on each side rather than using a lightweight spinnaker.
Many cats have between 5m-7m beam. That for me means a whisker pole is necessary to stop the genoa flaping about during rolling or in lighter wind. Any cat with a decent sized headsail won't have enough beam to get the sail out in the same way it could with a pole.

That being said, some cats have such a tiny genoa they can get away without one, or just using a barber hauler of some sort, but isn't design moving back towards more aft-set masts, and larger genoas?

I'm just about to buy a whisker pole for my boat. Country to what has been said by the OP the compression loads are enough to snap two carbon fibre poles I've tried using. That concerns me, since my sailmaker has recommended a Selden telescopic pole, but it only has plastic catches to stop it compressing. Unfortunately a one piece pole is a complete no go. I can't imagine many boats have space for a 6m long tube.
mikedefieslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 14:39   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Wichita/Pensacola
Boat: Lagoon TPI 37'
Posts: 38
Re: Anyone used wisker poles on catamarans

Ok, A few thoughts.
If flying a spinnaker (low wind days), use two lines on the tack and clew so you can switch between the two while jibing. Use the width of the bows instead of the pole. My boat is 20' wide. We use the windward bow for the tack and the aft leeward dock cleat on a block for the clew line. Then switch for jibing. WE have a block on each bow for each tack line and a block for each clew on each stern dock cleat.

2nd thought. (stronger wind) my furler has two tracks for two sails. We will use two headsails on the same furler for longer down wind runs. Basically to furl, the smaller sail is rolled inside the genoa. The two sails act as wing on wing on one furler.

3rd thought. Code zero on continuous furler on the bow sprit. Works well if wind that is stronger than spinnaker wants but not enough for the double headsail. Plus if we have enough wind we can actually use apparent wind to really move as the code zero is sheeted in while bringing the wind to our bow. The code zero furler takes some work to furl sail but can be used as wind increases. Code zero and tacking is the fastest but will travel further if wind directly on stern.

Other than that, I know nothing.
__________________

sailingchiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
catamaran

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wisker pole track install complication highseas Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 13 01-01-2018 18:15
[SOLD] Forespare Wisker Pole - Max 33 Foot Sailboat- Located in Ajax Ontario Canada toddmurray General Classifieds (no boats) 0 19-07-2017 21:46
Poles, poles and more poles GILow Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 12 22-09-2013 20:16
Whisker poles... Boracay Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 1 24-01-2008 22:17
Shipping Whisker/Spin poles Greg S Classifieds Archive 9 23-09-2007 19:17



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.