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Old 13-06-2006, 13:47   #61
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Aloha Rick and others,
Just to add a point to your points. I am a homeowner plus a taxpayer in the state of Hawaii. I own other properties here too. Politicians don't pay attention to me either.
I'm pretty certain that somewhere in the world there must be a happy anchorage and marina for us. Anyone know of any?
Regards, --John--
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Old 14-06-2006, 03:44   #62
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From Trade Only Today magazine (June 2006)
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/ME2/Default.asp

Goto Print Magazine Archives, and Select June 2006:

“Access denied - Dockominiums catch on quickly” ~ by Beth Rosenberg
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/ME2/Au...ED4F060E4A7B55

“Access denied - The solution? Work with the developers, say Jacobs and McCoy” ~ by Melanie Winters
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/ME2/Au...D934DD1B237782

“Access denied - When developers and marinas work together” ~ by Beth Rosenberg
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/ME2/Au...6639BA31BE1197

“Access denied …” ~ by Beth Rosenberg
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/ME2/Au...3894B516FACFD6
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Old 14-06-2006, 04:49   #63
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Gord,

This seems to be a good source to see how the industry is dealing with this problem.

Realestate booms move in cycles and we're coming to the end of 5 terrific years of this cycle. There may be some breathing room in the next couple of years, but it's going to take a concerted effort.

Nothing can be accomplished if it requires convincing 100's of waterfront communities and 50 states to change their laws. I'm convinced that we have to legislate our way out of it. The "Submerged Land Act" has to be modified and the Federal Government forced to take responsibility. Imagine what our interstate highway system would look like today if it had to be constructed to comply with the individual laws of towns and cities.

Just my opinion

Rick in Florida
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Old 14-06-2006, 07:11   #64
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Wait a minute...Gord's citations are about folks who have gone into the marina business, that's still going to mean "no anchoring here!" for transients. Rent it, buy it, sure, but even surer that you can't just drop a hook and stay in their waters.

Modifying the Submerged Lands Act? Dunno if that's possible. Once the Fed has given away lands and powers, it can't just "take them back". Don't forget that the Interstate and Defense Highway System was a cold war "national security" project, loaded with pork, and without the massive pork and the urgent military need--it would never have happened. (Of course, there are some interstates that should just be leased out to Disney, at least they'd provide entertainment en route!)
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Old 14-06-2006, 07:27   #65
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If the cost of a 30' sailboat ownership requires a fella buy a documinium (spelling?) for $100,000, how many will buy boats?

In a separate thread, Paul clarified that you basically buy a hole in the water which is uninsurable against water damage (hurricanes), and that it wears out! You have to replace it every 20 years. The best you can hope for is that it appreciates and you recover your costs when you sell, and you probably will. However, when you sell, you are out of boating again. Somehow this doesn't sound like a viable long term solution.

To own a boat, a man is going to have to buy waterfront property with a dock or mooring aleady part of the property. Around here that gets a tad expensive as the recent boom has forced prices on these homes into 6 digits. Only the wealthy will be able to afford to dock a boat.

Unless someone can find 'an angle'. Put a fork in us, as we are done (cooked).

Rick in Florida
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Old 14-06-2006, 07:30   #66
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Correction.......... I meant to type....."Around here that gets a tad expensive as the recent boom has forced prices on these homes into 7 digits."

Rick in Florida
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Old 14-06-2006, 08:03   #67
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If the Supreme Court can uphold a 'Eminent Domain' case in Connecticut last year where a perfectly 'good' neighborhood (not blighted) was taken by the City of Norwich, Ct so that Pfizer Inc. could have an empty piece of property adjacent to their proposed nice, new, shiney, waterfront Office building, I think the Government can do pretty much whatever it decides to do.

Rick in Florida
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Old 14-06-2006, 11:26   #68
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I don't mean to depress everyone here, but it's not a question of what "they" are doing to cruisers, it's about what "they" are doing to everybody. rickm505's right. Once the Supremes decided that improving the tax base constituted a public good, private ownership of property ceased to exist. Jefferson believed that a bit of revolution periodically was necessary to reestablish who is in charge. Freedom is often lost w/out bloodshed, but never regained w/ out it. I have a PoliSci degree, taught Gov't. in school, have a brother who worked in the Whitehouse, and I had to become apolitical. If you're not willing, as George, Thomas, and the boys were, to overthrow your government, you can either drive up your blood pressure or drop out. Voting is not an alternative it is a joke.
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Old 14-06-2006, 14:16   #69
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Keelbolts is one intelligent guy. I chose to drop out, but they just keep on coming after me... even when I'm anchored, like this thread talks about.

Rick made a point about the park system. I would like to point out that I went to a park in Boca Raton one sunny Sunday afternoon just to walk the beach. It was something like $20 just to go to the park. Even the park was off limits to the less fortunate. That disgusted my wife and I to no end.

I see a pattern. Seems the Feds do indeed still have some laws/policies, etc... that favor the greater good. It seems to be the locals that don't. In my experience, doing computer projects for local govts and feds, the locals are highly corrupt and have little to no accountability. They are kind of "under the radar." In fact, one local county in NJ bilked my company out of a great deal of money, which was one of the leading reasons I chose to drop out.

Even with all this said, I think it depends where you go. The farther you are from population centers with whiney citizens, the better your anchoring potential. I am currently in East Greenwich, CT. They came and took my info down, but haven't hassled me in weeks, while I was putting in a new genset and dealing with refrigeration problems. I wouldn't try and anchor here all season, but a few weeks is reasonable... and these locals are pretty reasonable because they don't have tons of $$ or attitudes.
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Old 14-06-2006, 17:56   #70
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This may be the best answer to the quandry:

http://www.ssca.org/useboatbucks.pdf
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Old 14-06-2006, 18:14   #71
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I don't believe that those boater bucks mean a thing. While we are busy convincing a local government that money is actually spent in their community, the polital pressure is brought to bear which renders this mute,

Keelbolts, I understand what you wrote and can sympathize, but try as I may, I'm not a radical or a revolutionary. We have a system, and I'd be the first to admit that at times it doesn't work very well, but, it's a system.

Politicians, no matter what they say, have a primary goal, and that's to be reelected. Our problem is of such limited scope that few people beyond boat owners are even aware of it. What we need is more exposure and to repackage the problem to include more people in order that they share our outrage.

If a politician is about to lose his job, I can guarrentee he/she will do what it takes to keep it.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

Rick in Florida
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Old 17-06-2006, 11:04   #72
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Aloha All,

Happy news about a new anchorage are. Could this be a good thing that could happen elsewhere?

"A welcome change is coming to Bainbridge Island's Eagle Harbor that will end the long-running dispute about people living on boats.
The city's harbormaster, Tami Allen, is in the process of obtaining permits so the city can build an open-water marina. The marina, which would be in the center of the middle section of the nearly 2-mile-long harbor, will provide a place where 20 live-aboards can legally reside. Tension has been building for years between shore-side residents and live-aboards. Island residents have accused the live-aboards of being too noisy, and discarding waste and trash into the water. Live-aboards have denied the charges, and claimed waterfront owners are intolerant.
Bainbridge Island has found a fair solution to the debate. By creating an open-water marina — which is a set place in the harbor, free of a dock, where boats can anchor — the city will be able to regulate what happens on the water. The marina will also have space for short-term moorage and transient vessels.
The new marina is desirable because the live-aboards would have to pay the Department of Natural Resources and the city for the privilege to live in Eagle Harbor. This will allow the city to better maintain and manage the water population, which Allen estimates is between 15 and 18 boats.
Regulation is important, because it ensures that live-aboards keep their boats in order, and are in compliance with state and city rules.
Eagle Harbor is one of the most interesting and vibrant harbors in the state. From beginning to end, the harbor is an eclectic mix of industrial, retail, residential and transportation users.
Bainbridge Island has taken another step to maintain Eagle Harbor's character, and at the same time provide a fair solution to boaters and landlubbers alike."
(For more information about Bainbridge Island's marina plans, go to http://www.ci.bainbridge-isl.wa.us/default.asp?ID=579)

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company
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Old 17-06-2006, 11:30   #73
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OK, Here is my hair brain scheme. I think we need to organize locally to get groups of 5 or more boats to anchor in some of these locations. It is easy for local municipalities to afford enforcement to clear out one anchorage, or to run off one or two boats, but they do not have the infrastructure to run off half a dozen boats anchored illegally in multiple locations all at once. If they run off the boats in one anchorage, or select boats in a prticular anchorage, it would be considered selective enforcement, and open them up to a very ugly lawsuit.
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Old 17-06-2006, 13:17   #74
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Kai!!! Anarchy!!! OMG - it WAS a long drive.

The fallacy with Scott's idea is - since when is the Coast Guard a local enforcement agency? It isn't. The PTB don't need a local enforcement agency - they have the CG. As Scott well knows, they can go anywhere there is water, and pretty much do anything they want. They ARE an arm of the government, and as such, they will mostly do the bidding of the local government.
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Old 17-06-2006, 13:42   #75
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I guess it is true that the coasties have nothing better to do than play landlord to local odinances. Still, it would keep them busy for awhile, and there are enough cruisers to simply move on to the next illegal anchorage when forced to do so by the coasties. Civil disobedience.
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