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Old 29-07-2011, 13:07   #121
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

markpierce,much of this argumentative behaviour has been by kali residents, my self in mazatlan inclusive as i still pay tax on property in kali--my ericson is yet there and still with that liability.
i know of and about the tweak and monster folks--i donot consider them as cruisers-- they will die off soon anyway. they DO make it difficult for the rest of us as humans to have to bear the weight of the laws spawned by their behaviours.
the thief element makes it easier to tolerate bandidos in other places we choose to cruise-- but they do need to be extinguished--- that is pending.... they do get caught. unfortunately , most often, not soon enough.

the problem with permanently anchored boats is being resolved by placement and enactment of laws closing the anchorages, as has been done in florida, wash, alaska, and sd and other places. we all need to watch what we wish for.
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Old 29-07-2011, 13:37   #122
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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Originally Posted by Dkdoyle View Post
Give me a definition please of a derelict boater/drug dealer/ lowlife?
Because we don't like the way they LOOK! Pretty much the same as the way we don' like the way their boat looks!

Just the way it is, admit it.
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Old 29-07-2011, 13:45   #123
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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The marina I'm at now (much rather be at anchor!)
There are some benefits to the marina (he says as he packs up gear and supplies for the weekend and prepares to row out to the boat). Once I'm on the boat the hassle of getting there will be forgotten.
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Old 29-07-2011, 15:22   #124
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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Just for the record, buying and selling drugs doesn't necessarily make you a bad person.
I didnt say he was bad.....I said he was a lowlife....
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Old 29-07-2011, 15:50   #125
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

This is a very interesting subject, and I have come across some “friends” from other forums here, too. Hello.

It’s NOT always anchor outs. Oh, really? Yes, really.

Our dock neighbor has a Pearson 33. Nice boat. At least it used to be. When we first came into the marina back in 1998, we were required to pass a “visual” inspection” – the marina wanted to be sure the boats that moved in were “clean.” However, there is no requirement to keep your boat in that condition. We met our dock neighbor a few times. Jack would come down once a year or so with a new girlfriend and have her do the woodwork and would take the boat out with her. Last time we saw him was six years ago. The nice white boat was getting blacker and blacker. Two winters ago it almost sank because his scuppers in the cockpit got gummed up and water started rising to the point where it would have reached a louver and flooded down below. The live aboard on the dock on the other side of Jack’s boat and I both called the marina, who sent a guy over to clear the scupper.

Just a few weeks ago, the marina put a locked chain across the stern of Jack’s boat. Guess he finally stopped paying his rent.

We found that completely counterproductive as far as the marina is concerned. They could use the slip for new nice clean renter. But no, what do they do? They KEEP a slob right there, which can’t be moved!!!

One of the issues permeating this discussion is “Where do boats go to die?” It hasn’t been answered, ‘cuz landfills aren’t the answer.

One respondent noted two areas in Northern California: Clipper Cove and Sausalito. We know Clipper Cove very well: our now 23 year old son was conceived there aboard our former boat. There were over a dozen derelict boats there for many years. Two years ago the Treasure Island Authority (land based) got rid of them, BUT they enacted a law that requires registration when anchoring, in what are Federal waters. I wrote to the appropriate authorities and Latitude 38, expressing my concern with the legalities of this action. This included my concern that it would make the lawful boaters have to take the brunt of actions of only a dozen bad eggs. As it stands, one is now required to register (they said you could do it by email, but not everyone has email on their boats), but it REMAINS UN-ENFORCED and most likely unenforceable UNLESS the authority goes out and buys what’ll most likely be a big-bad-assed powerboat with Gestapo policemen with black boots that will only harass law abiding boaters, and then have the costs of those black booted thugs passed on to boaters in what used to be a nice, small (no big powerboats required) free anchorage! Heck, they could look out the window of the harbor master’s office and figure out who stayed more than a week. The law of unforeseen consequences, and typical government stupidity. Now everyone who anchors there for even one night is formally doing it illegally. If they did that to get rid of the derelicts, it would be time for them to “undo” the law. Ever see that happen? We need less laws, not more.

That said: the lousy boats are gone and the anchorage is useable again for everyone.

So, good news. BUT the real question remains: Where did those boats go? Some moved to Sausalito, some back to the Estuary. But I don’t recall if the Authority actually ever “got rid” of any in landfill.

At about the same time, Berkeley had an issue with a bunch of rotting boats in their marina. Latitude 38 reported on this and showed a picture of a string of the boats being towed away! Yea!!! But I don’t recall what they did with them. There must be somewhere they can got to get cut up and scrapped.

Sausalito has had this issue for as long as I can remember, and haven’t done a thing about it, due, as I understand it, because of the myriad governmental agencies that are involved in the waterways.

We have our version of the “Mothball Fleet” of old WWII vessels. They used to get shipped all the way to Texas or India to get scrapped. They finally figured out that it would be less expensive to do it locally. So, the cash starved city of Vallejo, which housed the former and now closed Mare Island Shipyard (where they serviced the nuclear subs) got around to using that old shipyard and having a company scrap those huge steel ships right here, instead of hauling them, at OUR expense, through the Panama Canal!

The real issue is identifying them as “derelicts”, defining just what that is, and removing them. I don’t, nor does this group in this discussion, yet have an answer, although the ALREADY required registration is a good idea for a start. And something way too easy to check, so the government probably wouldn’t figure it out...

The REMOVAL part is something my marina obviously hasn’t cottoned onto yet! J

Yes, there are BIG issues about defining “derelict” and dealing with societal and attitudinal issues.

But it seems to me that if there was somewhere that “boats could go to die” – like being able to bring your large trash to a city dump - things would start to have a solution.

Let’s say you’re a responsible boater, can’t sell your old boat, and simply want to dispose of it “properly.” Where do you go? Take her out and sink her? Most would say, “Oh My God, NO, you can’t mess up our treasured seabed!!!” The damned environmentalists would have you for lunch. But the government has dumped NUCLEAR waste right off our doorstep here in San Francisco, less than 30 miles off the coast.

Help me out here. Where would you dispose of your boat? Seems one would need to find a place to get rid of them, like car junkyards.

I don’t know of any. Do you?

No new laws are required (except the ones in Florida that got rid of the bad local laws), and no new taxes are required. There are enough existing laws, and freebies that the rich guys and corporations get should be rescinded and they should pay their fair share.

Those laws just aren't being enforced, and everyone complains about when they are stopped and checked...

I object to being stopped and checked. They can’t do that to you on the roads, why on a boat? “They” should go after the “bad guys” but there remains the great issue, as discussed here, as to just what would initiate such an action by the authorities. Those same authorities that are have closed San Diego?

Give me a definition please of a derelict boater/drug dealer/ lowlife? Just exactly how do we define the vile person in our mist? or is it the boat we are referring too? Or both. Yes I am being a little cheeky but let's bring this back down earth and suggest real solutions as some have. I am a pretty good troubleshooting kind of person so I am going to suggest we define the problem or problems and then suggest reasonable solutions. Play nice now.
Problem - abandoned boats (no registration and been there for over a month.)
Solution - work with the local police or sheriff office to have it impounded and if the owner can be found fined with storage fees otherwise sold. Any takers to this approach?


This is one post (thanks, Dkdoyle) that makes a LOT of sense.
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Old 29-07-2011, 15:57   #126
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

You guys crack me up!

From the beginning, I have been saying it is a matter of responsibility. It has nothing to do with rich v. poor. It has nothing to do with what is ugly or pretty. It is all about being responsible; to the environment, to your neighbor, to your community. If you lack the resource to maintain your boat.... AND BE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT, then go live on land! There is no guarantee in life that everyone gets to do whatever they want, however they want... it just doesn’t work that way.

My boat has more junk on the rail than most where I moor... BUT unlike most of the others, mine will survive a several hundred mile passage AT ANY TIME. My boat is insured; if I pollute, I can pay to clean it up, if I sink, I can pay the salvage.

The reason the “landies” are making so many laws against “us” is because of the irresponsible among us. Unfortunately, society paints all boaters/cruisers with the same brush.... Guess what>>>> THEY OUT VOTE US! The have and always will. The OP of this thread was seeking a way to turn the tide of opinion. The answer is a bitter pill... but needs swallowing regardless!
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Old 29-07-2011, 16:03   #127
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

mebbe the pearson owner died and marina has to keep boat as is and wait for legal ability to lien it off. if that is case, would it hurt ye to spray some water over it a lil bit , or is water a paid commodity there?
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Old 29-07-2011, 16:24   #128
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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mebbe the pearson owner died and marina has to keep boat as is and wait for legal ability to lien it off. if that is case, would it hurt ye to spray some water over it a lil bit , or is water a paid commodity there?
Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that I've cleaned that f---ing boat more than the owner has. I doubt if he's one of those "had a heart attack" guys, too young, but ya never know. In spite of the condition of his boat, I wouldn't wish a heart attack on anyone.

I have more than once spent more time cleaning my side of his boat than I have my own after I come back from a sail.

I don't clean my neighbor's lawn of leaves and wouldn't expect him to do mine.
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Old 30-07-2011, 00:21   #129
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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I think it's been a couple of million years now since primates figured out we were better off living and cooperating in communities. Make that hundreds of millions of years for insects.
Nevertheless - anchoring out, sea steading, whatever, is not the same thing as living in a land community. Often, people choose to live on the hook as a means to not have to live in a community type setting.
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Old 30-07-2011, 10:13   #130
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

lorenzo---when i am on my way out of here, keep in touch so we can met for a beer or the local favorite liquid beverage.....you're kind of on my way to panama....i know i wont like it there--is way toopeaceful and puuurrrty for humans, but bubba may just love it.....

stu-- if he is young, he prolly found a female-- males get nutsocrazy when that happens, it seems...forgetful, also....
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Old 30-07-2011, 11:48   #131
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Old 30-07-2011, 12:38   #132
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

Guys i had to stop reading this about page 3 i was geting so angry.
'cause i AM one of those derilects the O.P. who doesent live in US and causes a bit of rukus he doesent follow through on.
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Old 30-07-2011, 12:41   #133
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

So I was boarded by the USCG while sailing in the James river today.

They checked my registration, checked the bilge to make sure I wasn't taking on water, checked that my engine was properly ventilated, and checked the head to make sure I was in compliance, and of course they checked the usual safety gear and stickers and things.... Of course, I passed everything.

Seems to me all that needs to be done (in the US) is have these already existing regulations enforced more thoroughly within anchorages.

Vessels have to be "seaworthy". So even at anchor, if it's taking on water and unattended, thats a no-no. If the anchor is dragging allover the anchorage unattended, that's a hazard to navigation, same thing if the rode is about to chafe through and nobody is around to replace it. No dumping and compliant head systems, and no oil leaks coming out of the bilge etc... all of these things already exist and can be enforced on a vessel in federal waters, anchored or not.

I know the USCG has better things to do (occasionally) but local municipalities are fully capable of enforcing federal laws, instead of making up new ones.
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Old 30-07-2011, 12:56   #134
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

rofl--in sd the only thing they give a rats behind about is whethr or not youhave nav lites and life jackets and signal devices and if your toilet is .....
that is NOT seaworthiness.
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Old 30-07-2011, 13:06   #135
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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rofl--in sd the only thing they give a rats behind about is whethr or not youhave nav lites and life jackets and signal devices and if your toilet is .....
that is NOT seaworthiness.
Right.. so isn't that the problem? Or atleast why the current solution is not working? Proper enforcement of existing laws will take care of the 'derelict' vessels by natural selection.

As to the other question, I'm not sure where all boats go to die, but I know theres a few thousand Katrina boats rotting away in boat yards that were given a little kickback from the government to take them... I used to browse a few of them in MS, most of the boats are actually salvageable and can be had for free, if anyone was interested... But they are just boat junkyards, not destroying them, just collecting them. They have plenty of space for more too
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