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**sailorchic34** · 29-07-2011, 09:39

This is why I live alone. Gee by some peoples thoughts here, I'm a boat bum-ette. My sailboat is 40 years old and is not shiny and it has some scuff marks here and there. I think it's got a salty look, yet everything on it works, well except the cat. Yes once and a while I'll dry some laundry on the lifelines. But I also sail far more then most and enjoy living on the water with a simple low impact lifestyle.

In the last 4 years, I've used a pump out station each week, but have never gotten a recipt. Gee probably because I only go to the free ones. I can't afford $20 a night to be tied to a dubious mooring ball. I'm one of those lowlifes that live on about $500 a month.

Not everyone wants a slip, lord knows I don't. In reality there are just as many run down sailboats in marinas as on the waters. Yes there are people just surviving on some old boats here and there and all around the world. I however am not one of them, for I'm not surviving, I'm living life to the fullest.

zeehag · 29-07-2011, 09:46

sailorchick--ye sounds like me--lol--- same vintage boat, lol
and no docking--unless under duress--i consider named storms duress.....

callmecrazy · 29-07-2011, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

From personal experance, it does affect YOU as a common boater not wanting to get involved..
As I had posted before, I own a home with waterfront property.. A great viev of the open area on the delta.. couple weeks ago, had a guy in a old beat-up and half sinking house boat pull up on the levee side across from my home and tyed his dock line to the street sign on the roadway atop the levee..
For me, a homeowner, its an eyesore, and and fact is, I didnt know if it was going to sink or not.. so in the search to rid the eyesore, I found out that I have an easement out into the water for future dock space.. a call to the local sheriff and he was gone down river...
Now your part
Because the sheriff was called out, he now knows the area is a NON ANCHORING area along the homes with waterfront property.. and this includes you, in your nice NEW big bucks sailboat.. NO EXCEPTONS.
Now I dont have any problems with boats anchoring there but I wont put up with someone in a floating garbadge can setting up housekeeping in front of my home and dumping his waist overboard...
But the line has been drawn and now, the sheriff will stop and ask everyone who anchors to move on.. Its either ALL or NOTHING and I cant say, let that boat stay and that boat go....
This derelict boater/drug dealer/ lowlife has destroyed the area for any that come by for any amount of stay..
even Marinas have gotten into the picture so to speak.. If your boat is older than 20 years, a picture must be attached to the application and many have a NO-STAY policy for wood boats of any kind.
You have to get involved or get out of the way, make changes or accept the ones that others make for you.......

There's a big difference between anchoring on someones private property and anchoring in a federally controlled waters were it's explicitly allowed. As you said, it doesnt matter what type a boat it is at that point... And it wasn't that guy who ruined it for everybody else, it was you.

Seems to me that the already existing laws, if enforced properly, are sufficient enough to reduce the really bad cases. No dumping is a law, up to date registration is already a law, and the uscg safety requirements are already in place.

If an anchorage is overcrowded it's just overcrowded, the condition of the boats or the prudence of their owners makes no difference to me. I wouldn't want to live in an overcrowded anchorage even if they were all million dollar yachts.

Even though some people deny it and others dance around it, this is plain and simple rich vs. Poor argument. Get rid of the ugly boats so the nice ones can come and go as they please... Im sure some places will be successful at making it difficult for low income boaters to be welcomed, but that just can't happen whenever and wherever those people want. There's going to have to be a certain number of ghetto anchorages. You simply cannot prevent people making their own choices, and if somebody on the verge of homelessness decides he'd rather own his home outright and live on the water, that person has just as much right to do so as anyone else.

People who don't like eye sore houses, move out to the suburbs and their gated communities where your not allowed to park in the street, work on your car in the driveway, and you have to keep your grass exactly 3.6" tall and green.
But the inner city is still there, it didn't disappear just becouse certain people don't like to look at it.

brutb · 29-07-2011, 10:43

Sailorchic34,

Congradulations on living aboard and on the hook. Just because your 40' boat does not glean and shine like a NEW boat does not mean you are a deadbeat. It means to me you are using the resourses to the fullest.

From previous post:
I did find offense that a wooden boat could be disallowed a place at a marina, because it its WOOD. Tell that to the WOODEN BOAT SHOW in the PNW. Those older wood boats are a sight to behold. Not all sparkle like new, though many do, they are able to navigate and give their owners a reasonable way to enjoy the water ways and enable them to instill in their kids a love of the water and of nature. And yes they can and do pass the USCG inspections regularly. Would you complain if an aluminum sailboat without hull paint were to moor near your house. In the NW many aluminium boats are not painted, both commerical as well leisure.. Unfortunately for the poster I find that I could not use his services with his attitude.

**hummingway** · 29-07-2011, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

Even though some people deny it and others dance around it, this is plain and simple rich vs. Poor argument. Get rid of the ugly boats so the nice ones can come and go as they please... .

It's always interesting when one person suggests one argument and another comes out and without refutation suggests quite simply it doesn't matter what your opinion is, I'm right. You may wish to make this a rich and poor argument but that doesn't make it so.

I don't have much money but I keep my boat operational and take my environmental responsibility seriously. My boat isn't shiny but it is securely moored, functional and doesn't dump sewage, I don't use it as a dumping ground for garbage and it isn't contributing to the degradation of our sea or shores. If the day comes when I can't maintain my boat to this minimal standard then it's time to move on.

I do think if you can't keep your boat or any other property in a state that makes it safe for others and the environment then you aren't meeting the basic responsiblity that allows freedom to be a reasonable tenet.

zeehag · 29-07-2011, 11:13

the definition of safe for others is still up in the air.
the ending IS that it IS money vs no money that this is about. sin diego proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt when the FEDERAL anchorages were closed by local government because the monied complained about ANY boats anchored in the anchorages, and the MONIED dropped off derelict 20 ft boats in the FEDERAL free anchorage to make it look even more derelict---
the argument in sd is--IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD A BRAND NEW SHINY PRODUCTION BOAT, YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE ON THE WATER.

this is followed up with the yards charging excessively high rates for haul and launch and repairs. (8000 dollars quote from knight and carver for a 20 dollar actual repair)
yes it IS money vs lack thereof.

**hummingway** · 29-07-2011, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag

the definition of safe for others is still up in the air..

For me it's not a big thing. Your boat should be securely moored, one way or the other, and it should capable of moving in an emergency and it shouldn't be a source of toxic discharge of nay sort

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag

the ending IS that it IS money vs no money that this is about. sin diego proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt when the FEDERAL anchorages were closed by local government because the monied complained about ANY boats anchored in the anchorages, and the MONIED dropped off derelict 20 ft boats in the FEDERAL free anchorage to make it look even more derelict---
the argument in sd is--IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD A BRAND NEW SHINY PRODUCTION BOAT, YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE ON THE WATER.

this is followed up with the yards charging excessively high rates for haul and launch and repairs. (8000 dollars quote from knight and carver for a 20 dollar actual repair)
yes it IS money vs lack thereof.

That's an instance of application and an example of how it shouldn't be. That doesn't make it a rich vs. poor argument although it may depend on how you define those things.

One of the reason that has been given for seeing that the environmental and safety hazards are dealt with is to head off this sort of over reaction.

Over reaction begets over reaction and before you know it the real problem is obscured.

captainKJ · 29-07-2011, 11:35

On the part about wooden boats,,,several marinas in the fort lauderdale area do not allow wooden boats due to insurance requirements. It seems that in florida more people with wooden boats do not maintain them and cost the insurance companies and marinas money to get them removed. I looked at buying a classic wooden boat in fort lauderdale but was unable to find a marina to take it.

callmecrazy · 29-07-2011, 11:36

It's been stated several times in this thread that it's low income housing type of boats that are causing all the problems. I didn't just make that up...

I agree that people should be safe and responsible on the water, no matter what shape their boat is in or how financially poor they are. It's just as illegal for the "low life" houseboater docked to a streetsign to dump his sewage as it is for anyone else. Those laws just aren't being enforced, and everyone complains about when they are stopped and checked... People should be held accountable for keeping the waterways they travel upon clean and sewage free. But the basic assumption here is that poor people are generally more irresponsible than others. It's already been said, I'm not making this up... so if everyone in an anchorage were required to comply with the already existing laws, where is the problem at that point?

markpierce · 29-07-2011, 11:48

Money? More money? Boats in California are subject to property taxes at the same rate as dirt-based homes. In fact, property taxes are greater for my boat in dollar amount than my home on land. Didn't pay any sales/use tax when I purchased my home, but paid over $18,000 tax for my boat purchase! Maybe you feel your taxes are too low where you live.

Dkdoyle · 29-07-2011, 11:52

Give me a definition please of a derelict boater/drug dealer/ lowlife? Just exactly how do we define the vile person in our mist? or is it the boat we are referring too? Or both. Yes I am being a little cheeky but let's bring this back down earth and suggest real solutions as some have. I am a pretty good troubleshooting kind of person so I am going to suggest we define the problem or problems and then suggest reasonable solutions. Play nice now.
Problem - abandoned boats (no registration and been there for over a month.)
Solution - work with the local police or sheriff office to have it impounded and if the owner can be found fined with storage fees otherwise sold.

Any takers to this approach?

lorenzo b · 29-07-2011, 11:57

Just for the record, buying and selling drugs doesn't necessarily make you a bad person.

**hummingway** · 29-07-2011, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

It's been stated several times in this thread that it's low income housing type of boats that are causing all the problems. I didn't just make that up...

I agree that people should be safe and responsible on the water, no matter what shape their boat is in or how financially poor they are. It's just as illegal for the "low life" houseboater docked to a streetsign to dump his sewage as it is for anyone else. Those laws just aren't being enforced, and everyone complains about when they are stopped and checked... People should be held accountable for keeping the waterways they travel upon clean and sewage free. But the basic assumption here is that poor people are generally more irresponsible than others. It's already been said, I'm not making this up... so if everyone in an anchorage were required to comply with the already existing laws, where is the problem at that point?

What I've read is the comment on low income liveaboards where the boats aren't seaworthy not any injunction against poor liveaboards.

It isn't illegal in all areas. It may be where you live but the forums a bit bigger then that. Laws that require vessels to be seaworthy seem to be showing up in the some municipalities, but so far I'm mostly hearing about fights going on over more or less permanently anchored "problem" boats with no solution. I suspect some of them are owned by people with money as well. They aren't all liveaboards, in fact where I moor many of them aren't.

One reason to seek a viable solution and speak out about it is so that the solution isn't the sole invention of those who only see the view from land. If the only thing cruisers have to say is "do nothing" then the solution won't likely suit them. The population is going to continue to grow and pressure on coastal waters will increase.

callmecrazy · 29-07-2011, 12:02

The marina I'm at now (much rather be at anchor!) is owned and operated by the city. When a boat is abandoned (slip fees more than 3 months late) the owner is contacted and asked to pay the fees etc.. If the owner can't comply, or is unreachable, they go through process of taking ownership (same as obtaining a salvage title) and then sell the boar at auction.

There's 3 boats here now that went through this process, one of them was bought and abandoned and bought again, 3 separate times, all three of these boats are currently well kept and maintained and under responsible owners. Win-win situation...