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Old 28-07-2011, 12:44   #91
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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who is to decide the defining terminologies???
A good question - how about we do it here? What determines a junky boat? What determines a derelict boat? What are reasonable limits? Who inspects?
Well folks? This is what we're here for...
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Old 28-07-2011, 12:48   #92
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

I gave my definition earlier. To me if the boat has no means of motivation, which is to say motor, rigging and sails non-functional then it needs more then an anchor holding it. Location and circumstances enter into the equation.

Derelict live-aboards pose there own set of challenges. If someone is living on the boat then waste management becomes an issue. Dumping waste in a harbour is unacceptable to me. If that's the lifestyle these people want then a VW van is the answer not a boat at anchor in some area where it's sewage and it's lack of care and demise are going to represent a problem to the environment or other people.

I don't think there is one set of rules or standards that can be applied and have it work everywhere but that includes laissez faire. There are too many people with conflicting interests for there to be no rules.
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Old 28-07-2011, 14:37   #93
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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Originally Posted by canucksailor View Post
Ok, so how about these thoughts...any boat out at anchor must be capable of moving under its own power? If someone is aboard, must be either pumped out, with a receipt, every two, three, four weeks? If long term storage, the boat must be checked on (with verification to the local government or designated individual such as a dockmaster) every two, three four, eight weeks?
Boat decks must be reasonably clear of clutter, boat must meet certain standards (how to set those standards?)
What other thoughts seem reasonable to you?
Here are my thoughts -

Let me caveat my posting by stating that I find it interesting that you started the thread about Sunset Lake and Karlton and are now focusing on boaters/non-boaters who irritate other boaters and homeowners. While I have no love for a bully homeowner, I have even less for someone who inflames a problem in an attempt to solve a problem.

I will also state that my boat is my home, has been my home, and will continue to be my home, and people that think like you pose a serious threat to my lifestyle and happiness. I pay 1500.00 to rent two docks and when I pass by the anchored (at no charge) sailboat with laundry on the rigging and a few stains on the hull I smile because I know that whoever owns that boat is doing what he or she loves and has the inherent right to do it.

Now, in reply to your posting (quoted above):

Are you serious? If so, you need to get a dose of reality and start considering the myriad of reasons as to why a particular boat may have started to violate your version of appearance and operational standards. There are many others reasons other than those of simple abandonment and neglect.

By the way, just who would pay for the enforcement efforts of such a plan?

Like other facets of life, the "few" cause problems for the "many" - it is part of the daily grind. If you don't like what you see, move on until you like what you see. It won't be as hard as you think - unless you want it to be.

Why in the heck would you want to levy more regulations and laws on a lifestyle where plenty of laws already exist that do nothing more than harass, irritate, and limit freedom of movement and one's ability to enjoy the lifestyle - warts and all?

Boaters vs. "non-boaters" (AKA boat owners with social issues) - that's it, lets arrange more social support (AKA socialism) and make those of us who don't have issues pay for the problems of those that do...then we will all be the same, right?

What about the single guy/gal living/cruising aboard an "immaculate" boat who fell ill and was hospitalized for several weeks/months and was unable to pump-out on schedule, move the boat on schedule, or even clean the algae off the hull? You really want to tow it and chain it to a dock? Really??

What about a family living aboard where the wage earners lost their jobs and are trying like heck to keep things together? (Read the papers lately? - there is more of it coming) - are you going to send the harbor patrol to tell these people that they can no longer live aboard and must report to the local social services office just after they pay a fine to have their boat disposed of?

I could go on and on...I guess the response to the two situations above is simply to say that those people were not "real" boaters/sailors because they failed to plan for every possible problem in life. And since they failed to do so they must be regulated and punished. Yeah, right.

I have to apologize to others who might be offended at my posting - but I find it incredulous to visit a site dedicated to enjoying cruising and find someone who wants to make it harder to enjoy such a lifestyle by enacting more laws and regulations. Healthy debate and opinions are all good - but it is a very slippery slope to demand more laws.

Sure, there are derelicts and shanty town anchorages. Its part of the package. Its the same with the people who complain about the iguanas and parrots in Ft. Laud - If you don't like it, move on til you find a place you do like. There already are laws in place (in FL) that address derelicts and others.

Sewage always seems to be the catalyst and deciding factor when targeting untidy boaters - if you added up all the overboard head flushes in a week from Ft Laud to Key West you wouldn't come near the total daily amount of sewage dumped by the leak at the south end of the canal on Isle of Venice which has been there over 5 years now. I grew up in S. Fla where at one time you could free dive off the beaches in less than 10' of water and snag lobster and snapper without effort - now those reefs are dead and sterile due to rainwater runoff and ocean sewage dumping from six outfalls in Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties. If you want to fight for a cause, choose that one!

I know it sucks to have to see things that make you mad (dirty boats and indigent boaters). I don't think your efforts are evil, I just find them patently offensive, but nonetheless, you are entitled to your views and ideas just like all others.

Boat Happy!
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Old 28-07-2011, 21:30   #94
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

People should worry about themselves and their own boats. Who's right is it to dictate to another how to live? Don't like the looks of an anchored boat? Don't look at it, or move on.

We are free beings on this planet, and who are you to judge others? This is exactly what's wrong with people, always trying to be in somebody else's business. Your rights end at your fingertips, they don't extend to your view of the horizon.
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Old 29-07-2011, 01:30   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksailor View Post
As we all know, anchoring is becoming a problem in a number of jurisdictions, not just Florida. One of the major issues perceived from the shore is that of derelict boats and even more derelict boaters - i.e., vessels with decks replete with junk, dirty, with laundry hanging from the lines, etc. etc.
The problem here is not so much a boating problem as a social services one, as the 'boater' is poor, possibly has a mental illness or a substance abuse problem and would, in other circumstances be in a homeless shelter or under a bridge.
How can we, as cruisers, address this problem. I'm looking for ideas as I intend to bring this up in a larger venue. The ultimate goal is to focus thinking away from this being perceived as a 'boating' problem so that the 'solutions' - such as anchoring restrictions etc. - aren't causing us difficulties.
Thoughts, ideas, comments?
In my case the mess is partially to turn off thieves! Regardless, the strategy only worked till last week when I had my first break and enter attempt. Luckily one of the thieves tripped over a glass bowl breaking it and waking my dog. During their getaway they did take my lifebuoy and it's light, but it could have been much worse had they got inside, especially considering I did not wake. So all that crap was as effective as Joshua Slocum's tacks?

I have also been considering making my boat even more dysfunctional by nightly removing the interior stairs so my "friends" could "drop in and say hello" (if you get the drift?) Then me and my friends can have a serious talk about who mad I really am.

I note, I am in the process of re-assembling my boat so I can head off for some serious cruising very soon.
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Old 29-07-2011, 07:44   #96
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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Originally Posted by ChrisnCate View Post
People should worry about themselves and their own boats. Who's right is it to dictate to another how to live? Don't like the looks of an anchored boat? Don't look at it, or move on.

We are free beings on this planet, and who are you to judge others? This is exactly what's wrong with people, always trying to be in somebody else's business. Your rights end at your fingertips, they don't extend to your view of the horizon.
I think it's been a couple of million years now since primates figured out we were better off living and cooperating in communities. Make that hundreds of millions of years for insects.
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Old 29-07-2011, 07:58   #97
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

May be someone can explain this On the ICW in south fl just south of the Dania st bridge there are two barges grounded on a sand bar, they actually pose a hazard to passing boats They have been there for several years 3-7 and there are actually men living on them How come I cant anchor in maimi and these dam things are allowed to remain in the restricted space of the ICW with no apparent issue??
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Old 29-07-2011, 08:02   #98
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Oh I so do disagree. Common good kind of stuff like eminent domain. Based on whose standards? You don't think these common good laws are not abused by those using them? I am not suggesting free for all but there has to something that is helpful and not legislated.
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Old 29-07-2011, 08:36   #99
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

Yeah, laws are such a bore. Having to stand in line to register your car and then pay money.
That's why Timothy McVeigh was already in jail when they were looking for him, driving with no license plate.
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Old 29-07-2011, 08:46   #100
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Yeah, laws are such a bore. Having to stand in line to register your car and then pay money.
That's why Timothy McVeigh was already in jail when they were looking for him, driving with no license plate.
So where is your suggestion above?
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Old 29-07-2011, 08:53   #101
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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is a boat left alone for a yr a derelict, if there is a sudden illness needing to be attended to in another locale???/
who is to decide the defining terminologies???
Any owner who would leave a boat alone at anchor for a year is irresponsible. We get this all the time in Richardson Bay. The boat will sit unattended through the rainy season, slowly filling up with water, and then when the next storm comes along it sinks. Now all you see of it is a mast sticking up out of the water, a hazard to navigation that has to be removed by municipal authorities at taxpayer expense.

After one particularly windy storm last winter, four of these boats were blown up on the Tiburon shore, and seven were either swamped on sunk in their anchorages.

My solution would be absolutely simple. If a boat is at anchor overnight without showing an anchor light, it should be towed. If the registration is not current, scrap it immediately. If it is registered but is not claimed after two weeks, it should be scrapped anyway.

Easier to scrap them before they sink.
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Old 29-07-2011, 08:57   #102
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

in sin diego the moored boats have been under mandate to be inspected by uscg aux every year for sea worthiness. is very easy to bribe a uscgaux individual, it seems, as many of those boats deemed to be seaworthy were, in fact, disasters from anchorage 8. is all goood-- they are deemed seaworthy by uscg aux!!!!!!
funny how "seaworthy" only means HAVING ALL NECESSARY LIFE SAVING EQUIPMENT on board. doesnt have anything to do with the appearance or the condition of the hull or anyhting that could possibly be considered seaworthiness.....
NOW they actually make ye bring th boat to the inspection dock-- cant have an inspector come to you anymore--- the entire process is a joke, as seaworthiness has nothing to do with boats goint to an inspe3ction dock for perusal of flares and jackets and noisemakers and such.

mebbe some kind of inspection might work in the area you find offensive boats located??/ or do ye spoze the boats with the kayaks on them may have safety equipment??

registered but not claimed after 2 weeks?/ how about the guy having heart surgery and left his boat to the anchorage for a time, yet has current documentation???? ye gonna crush his home?
or the guy with the family emergency in another state--- ye gonna crush his home because he isnt there for a month, while he is somewhere else taking care of a dying momma??
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Old 29-07-2011, 08:59   #103
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

Hi Group.
RV Daring Game said it for me. No more regulation ( Unless I get to be dictator king of the universe and I do the dictating) .
On land the reason public streets and parks are not full of trash like Jamaica ,is not because we as a society are more clean. Its because our tax dollars pick it up.
( In my opinion one of the best use of my tax dollar and puts food on the table of those doing the picking)
Trash does not pile up in front of our houses because we pay to have it picked up.
( There are people who will drop trash on the ground even if they are leaning on the receptacle. )
  • If we anchor in a public area, society bites the bullet and pays for pickup, pump out or drop off areas.Just like our parks on land .
  • We try to educate the next generation to have pride in their land, respect for themselves and neighbor.
Neighborhoods on land that have enough complaints about a derelict building or auto,have it removed.
I, like many of you have several generations before me and a current generation that has payed in life and blood for my relative freedoms. So me paying a little money for trash removal in public areas is an easy freedom from trash and the aggression I feel when I see it being dumped. It is amazing how many people just don't think, their not bad they just did not have anyone show them way.

No more dictators for me.
From the HOA god down the street to Mugabe.
(Show me THE WAY)

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Old 29-07-2011, 09:00   #104
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

If you go back through the thread and read it you will find my suggestion. And, yes, it does involve more legislation, regulation, and taxes.
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Old 29-07-2011, 09:14   #105
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Re: Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

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Originally Posted by ChrisnCate View Post
People should worry about themselves and their own boats. Who's right is it to dictate to another how to live? Don't like the looks of an anchored boat? Don't look at it, or move on.

We are free beings on this planet, and who are you to judge others? This is exactly what's wrong with people, always trying to be in somebody else's business. Your rights end at your fingertips, they don't extend to your view of the horizon.

From personal experance, it does affect YOU as a common boater not wanting to get involved..
As I had posted before, I own a home with waterfront property.. A great viev of the open area on the delta.. couple weeks ago, had a guy in a old beat-up and half sinking house boat pull up on the levee side across from my home and tyed his dock line to the street sign on the roadway atop the levee..
For me, a homeowner, its an eyesore, and and fact is, I didnt know if it was going to sink or not.. so in the search to rid the eyesore, I found out that I have an easement out into the water for future dock space.. a call to the local sheriff and he was gone down river...
Now your part
Because the sheriff was called out, he now knows the area is a NON ANCHORING area along the homes with waterfront property.. and this includes you, in your nice NEW big bucks sailboat.. NO EXCEPTONS.
Now I dont have any problems with boats anchoring there but I wont put up with someone in a floating garbadge can setting up housekeeping in front of my home and dumping his waist overboard...
But the line has been drawn and now, the sheriff will stop and ask everyone who anchors to move on.. Its either ALL or NOTHING and I cant say, let that boat stay and that boat go....
This derelict boater/drug dealer/ lowlife has destroyed the area for any that come by for any amount of stay..
even Marinas have gotten into the picture so to speak.. If your boat is older than 20 years, a picture must be attached to the application and many have a NO-STAY policy for wood boats of any kind.
You have to get involved or get out of the way, make changes or accept the ones that others make for you.......
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