Anchoring and Cruisers' Responsibilities

[canucksailor]

Dkdoyle - actually, that WAS the setup prior to changes in the law a couple of years ago. Now, outside of mooring fields, there are very few restrictions. While it has been a boon to cruisers, shoresiders aren't very happy in some places.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

That's right! You don't shut down an entire neighborhood because somebody living on welfare doesn't cut their grass or keep their house painted. You either help them out or live with it, or move....

I can understand Local jurisdictions making rules, but the rules don't seem to be very fair when it's either pay up or get out...

What to do about it? Either start actually fighting, which actually takes work... or not.

The whole concept of somebodies dirty hull, non-painted decks, and laundry hanging on lifelines, equalling derilict status is absolutely absurd. The people that feel that way have never tried to live at anchor, and the people at anchor are not all poor or homeless, they are just doing things differently.,,

I'm anchored right now across from a megayacht and inbetween two other 30 footers that look like they've planted roots. Nobody complains, because this is a boating community and boats of every imaginable description come through here. There's fishing vessels that look like their half sunk, but keep working... theres mega-yachts, marina's filled with regular old boats and cruisers, and the very few, anchorors...

I can't imagine a boating community being any less than this (although I know it's rare). I find it hard to believe the problem is shorebased. It's based on expensive cruisers complaining about poor cruisers (fact!). People spend thousands of dollars on their boats and thousands of dollars on their slips, then some loner comes in and quietly anchors out without spending a dime, and people start to complain.

The people on shore can't tell the difference. Maybe if you're anchored right in front of somebodies house or something, but I in a place that's mostly city, or mostly boats, the shore based people are not the one's complaining.

you've heard the old saying that "one bad apple spoils the barrel" thats exactally what happened around here.. just an old boat anchored in the slough and nobody calling attention to him until someone "shore bound" and fishing in the slough saw the guy dump a bucket of RAW CRAP off the side of his boat.. called the news and it was on the 6 o-clock news about boat people living on the water and dumping sewage into the river...
Now thousands of gallons of raw sewage have been dumped befor, but this guy got on the news and smiled about it..
two weeks later a new ordanace was passed within the sheriffs dept concerning holding tanks.. and many marinas drop a pill into the tank when you come to visit.. turns the water around your boat a different color if you discharge..
Most all of the regulations concering anchoring or long term anchoring have been set due to people who have abused the rights and the waterways..

[canucksailor]

but there seems to be some confusion on what a deralict boat actually is. As far as I can tell, if a person is living on a floating boat, it's not a deralict.

Often the problem IS the person, who isn't really a boater but should be dealt with, as I noted in the OP, by social services.
I'm hoping that comments such as yours and the others being posted will reveal some avenues that offer a solution that we, as cruisers, can present to the powers that be.
Ultimately, I want us to be able to protect our own rights to anchor and go our own way without being harassed. But as in all things, competing interests require limits that all can agree to....and therein lies the rub.
Your remark 'The problem is simply a lack of community, or a lack of understanding' is interesting.

[Dkdoyle]

Originally Posted by canucksailor

Dkdoyle - actually, that WAS the setup prior to changes in the law a couple of years ago. Now, outside of mooring fields, there are very few restrictions. While it has been a boon to cruisers, shoresiders aren't very happy in some places.

Yes I was just brushing up on it. I know the intent was to get all the communities to quit hassling boaters. There are always two sides to any story.

[Noname]

The police don't let derelict cars sit on road shoulders; they also don't let derelict persons reside in parks or parking lots or streets; nor do they allow people to abandon their old mattresses, tvs, etc. wherever they please. Abandoning a boat (akin to an old mattress or other junk) should not be permitted; and just maybe it is not permitted. Just find and arrest the last owner, fine them, make them remove such abandoned litter, throw them in jail, or whatever works in each case. This should not be a big deal. There are lots of these derelicts in the Indian River Lagoon between Titusville and Melbourne, FL.

[callmecrazy]

Well, I've lived in neighborhoods with some utterly psychologically unstable people. The government doesn't control them... they aren't prevented from owning homes, they arent prevented from driving cars (mostly) and they aren't 'kicked out' of the neighborhood because they don't keep up their practically condemned homes...

Pollution and safety are issues that probably should be regulated. People are pretty gross.... But those regulations should have zero affect on whether a person is allowed to anchor out or not.

When I say 'lack of community', I mean that, if I were anchored next to a boat that was sinking, i'd help. If I were anchored next to a boat that hung it's laundry out, I wouldn't mind... If I were paying for a slip I wouldn't get all hung up about the guys anchored out outside the marina. We're all just doing our thing... The lack of community comes from the people who look at older, unkempt, boats and complain about the scenery...

When I say lack of understanding, I'm referring to the politicians who make their decisions based on the complaints they're hearing, and (also a lack of community issue) the LACK of hearing the other side of the story...

Is derelict boats the problem? or is it people anchoring out?

There needs to be a distinction between the two. Dealing with derelict boats is not that big of an issue, even other people living in an anchorage should be onboard to get them out (if they're truly abandoned). It's the people anchoring out for long periods that (seems to me) upsets everyone else, who feels like they need to pay for services and space...

If the waterway is free to travel upon, and anchor upon, then it is unfair to restrict it for certain people and not others.

So, as 'cruisers', when you see some ugly boat in an anchorage that hasn't moved in a year, do you snarle at them and wish they where gone? assume they're living on welfare and not paying taxes? would you even consider offering them a beer and finding out what their reality is? Maybe they just need a job? maybe they are happy and content in their home? maybe what you think is ugly, they think is beautiful?

If we start asking for regulations we will get them... If we don't stop the regulations, they won't ever stop.... Politics, and communities, take Action on every level. Whether its an anchorage, or a marina, or a neighborhood is irrelevant.

We could go the route of standard america, where the rich live on one side of the city and the poor on the other. That's a great solution, isn't it?

From what I understand the people in FLA have done a lot of fighting, and it's starting to work... The rules are getting changed (constantly), but it took the rules to be made in the first place, then people to get tired of them, before anyone started fighting back. Community action is essential at the ground level before things become a problem. And If they're already a problem, it's even more essential.

I don't have the answers as to how to fight or what exactly to do about abandoned boats, or how to help the less fortunate liveaboards, but I do know it's possible if people actually care to engage themselves and do some real work.

If I were going to stay somewhere for a while, I'd be interested in joining (or starting) a boaters-community action group. People banning together to keep the waterways both clean, and free. If I'm just passing through, I won't complain...

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by Seaduction

The police don't let derelict cars sit on road shoulders; they also don't let derelict persons reside in parks or parking lots or streets; nor do they allow people to abandon their old mattresses, tvs, etc. wherever they please. Abandoning a boat (akin to an old mattress or other junk) should not be permitted; and just maybe it is not permitted. Just find and arrest the last owner, fine them, make them remove such abandoned litter, throw them in jail, or whatever works in each case. This should not be a big deal. There are lots of these derelicts in the Indian River Lagoon between Titusville and Melbourne, FL.

Clearly you've never traveled through any semi-major city in American and tried to count how many homeless people you see... They are EVERYWHERE. They are not getting thrown in jail, they are not getting fined, they DO sleep on park benches, and doorways, and in abandoned cars (that aren't being towed away). It IS a big deal...

Dealing with abandoned boats is an entirely different issue than dealing with less fortunate people.

[canucksailor]

The laws concerning abandoned and/or derelict boats are not helpful to those trying to deal with the problem. I say the following, and ask to be corrected if I'm incorrect (an infrequent but quite annoying circumstance!):
A boat cannot be moved, or dealt with in any way by a local government, unless it sinks, because of the laws which regulate boats, which are not the same as, say, a car. Up to the point of sinking or going aground in a storm, it's a simple tow - after that, you have to raise it, deal with pollution issues, etc. etc.
If that is correct, then what we need to arm municipalities with are laws similar to those which permit a zoning officer to order a property cleaned up, and if it isn't done, to deal with the problem and put the cost on the property owner's taxes.
Something like that, applied to boats, might work. Thoughts?

[canucksailor]

saw the guy dump a bucket of RAW CRAP off the side of his boat

I always thought 'bucket and chuck it' was legal....

[Bash]

The first step has got to be that we stop romanticizing the lifestyle of non-sailors who anchor out on derelicts.

There are at least 30 derelict boats anchored within a mile of the marina where I keep my boat. I don't like the fact that these people are pumping raw sewage into the waters where I kayak. I'm not crazy about the fact that the boats are not taken care of, and that significant numbers of them will soon sink or be blown up on shore, necessitating expenditures of civic funds to remove them from the bay. Honestly, I see at least a dozen sunken boats every year, just the mast sticking up out of the water.

What I really dislike is that in the autumn, when cruisers come down from British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest on their way to Mexico, they have to anchor by the ferry dock where it's quite rolly because the derelicts are permanently ensconced in the better spots.

I hate the fact that there's so much theft in our area. (The Sausalito West Marine records the highest level of shoplifting of any West Marine in the world.) I'm in a marina where a 60' slip costs $1,000 per month, but even when my dink is in davits, I have to keep it locked and chained.

The worst part of this problem is that the derelict anchor-outs are making it more difficult for honest cruisers to drop the hook in places we'd like to visit. The only way that landowners, seaside businesses, and civic officials can fight against the scourge of anchor-outs in derelict boats is to restrict all of us from anchoring.

Having seen what transpires here in Sausalito, I can't say I blame them.

[canucksailor]

Most all of the regulations concering anchoring or long term anchoring have been set due to people who have abused the rights and the waterways..

Most all of the regulations concering anchoring or long term anchoring have been set due to people who have abused the rights and the waterways..

Good point, and I won't claim to have always been innocent either. Fact is, we ALL have to make a point of leaving a clean wake, and ensuring that others do as well.
It's how to accomplish that without a bunch of hurt feelings (or gunplay!) that puzzles me. Plus the other issues that are being brought up here.

[canucksailor]

The first step has got to be that we stop romanticizing the lifestyle of non-sailors who anchor out on derelicts.

That's why I've suggested that we need to make civic officials see that this is NOT a boating problem, it's a social work issue. IF we can change that incorrect focus, then we take the heat off of boaters - those observing see the boat and jump to a natural conclusion as to what and where the problem is - and put the solution and the responsibility for solving it where it belongs, without inviting penalties to boaters.
So - what solutions do we propose here?

[canucksailor]

they have to anchor by the ferry dock where it's quite rolly because the derelicts are permanently ensconced in the better spots.

happens in FL too - I hate that!

[Randyonr3]

Just took a drive around the loop, past my home and back over to the marina.. about a 10 mile drive.. in that 10 miles we saw a number of boats that looked abandoned as the first shot...
The second is a boat that went down a few weeks ago.. being swallowed up by the island grass...
In the third photo, a derelick boat recovered from the water where it was going down just outside the marina..
If you can catch them as they are going down, they can be hauled out.. once down, the enviromental people get involved and the cost is high to get them out..
Had one anchored in front of my waterfront home until earlier this week..actually he wasnt anchored, he had run aground on the levee and was tyed to a street sign on the road above.. after a talk with the sheriff, he moved on..
NOTE.. This was an issue brought up on a thread elier this week about someone anchoring in front of my home on ther river......after a little checking, and talking to neighbors, seems the property I own comes with an easement that extends 300 feet into the water.. the homes on the waterfront, when zoned, came with an easement for private marina..
the water is public, but I have the rights to the land under the water..

[canucksailor]

Nice post Randy, thank you.
Ok, so how about these thoughts...any boat out at anchor must be capable of moving under its own power? If someone is aboard, must be either pumped out, with a receipt, every two, three, four weeks? If long term storage, the boat must be checked on (with verification to the local government or designated individual such as a dockmaster) every two, three four, eight weeks?
Boat decks must be reasonably clear of clutter, boat must meet certain standards (how to set those standards?)
What other thoughts seem reasonable to you?