Anchor winches

[giselle II]

I thought I could just buy a winch and bolt it to the deck and Robert's my father's brother, but not so. First I made a chain locker before I found you need 300mm minimum fall so I'll have to enlarge the locker.
One manufacturer told me their vertical winches need to have the gypsy a little higher than the bow roller so the chain rises to the winch. I cant really see why and the nature of my fore deck means I would need a 100mm pad under the winch and this eliminates a lot of winches. Can anyone shed light on this vexing issue?
Does anyone know why a Muir HR700 with its 600W motor pulls less than the H600 with its 400W motor? Why is getting information from Muir like extracting hen's teeth?
Also the total weight of my ground tackle is 70kg with 90 meters of rope and chain. I work on the 1:6 rule so my maximum anchoring depth is 15 M. So the most weight I will pull is 15M chain plus anchor, about 35kg.
Can I use this figure as my working load?
Cheers, and happy sailing.

[brianlara 3]

G'day Giselle.
Firstly, a little more info about the vessel you are improving would help.
But, for what it's worth, I have lived on board my Triton on the New South Wales coast for 7 years. And mine is not a big boat by any standard.
But 6 months after I moved aboard I shredded both my rotator cuffs and as I regularly go up and down the coast it was obvious I needed a windlass and a lot of chain and a bloody good pick.
The first TWO were Lewmar Pro 1000....big mistake. Bought a Muir Easy Weigh (1100 watts) and more than three years later it is still running like a sewing machine (and I was once a mechanic).
The chain I bought then was 66 metres of 5/16 G40 from Whitworths and I put a Manson 25lb Supreme on the chain.
Now for the bit that might interest you.
This boat comes standard with a massive anchor locker (nowhere full with my new chain of 75 metre c/w 35lb Manson) and a moulded fibreglass lid hinged on deck.
And you can imagine that I needed to drop chain into the centre of the locked and 80% of the distance back towards the anchor bulkhead.
So I removed the curved moulded lid and replaced it with 1/2" marine ply bonded into place. Then I had a teak plank made 900mmX 300mmX 48mm which I mounted over the top of the anchor locker. The front of the plank is 10 inches from the bow roller and the back of the plank finishes 2 inches behind the bulkhead. The plank is fixed to the deck (1 inch thick) with 4 bolts each 1/2 inch 316 ss.
The Muir horizontal windlass on the teak plank has raised the centre line of the gypsy about 4 inches above ditto of the bow roller.
BUT.....IF, I didn't have that 4 inch drop then all I'd have to do is fit a flat bar SS 75mm X 3mm onto the top of the teak and the chain would drag along, horizontally, every time I dropped the pick which happens every few days.
There is no need for a drop, just have a non friction surface, sacrificial or otherwise (wood or SS)
Re: Muirs motor wattages and pulling capacities, it's all about gearing, advertising ....you decide. But the two motors you quoted are really, really low power things which might be ok on a small boat in flat water and on a calm day.
That said, if you gear a windlass low enough you could pull it with a tiny motor.......but the chain will come up ultra slow.
No, you can't use 35kg as your working load....could write for hours telling you why but I wont .
The answer is NO!
SHORT !!!! Imagine your 35Kg of hook and chain have buried themselves deep in mud and there is a bit of breeze blowing!!!!!
DO NOT SKIMP ON GROUND TACKLE.
Lots of chain of the proper weight, a good concave anchor, a good strong windlass.......or pull it up by hand. Plenty of people do.
Sorry if I've been too long winded/boring.
Cheers Brian. (in Sydney until C. 3th Jan, leaving for Tasmania)

[giselle II]

G'day Brian
Thanks - this is the first time I've used the forum and I'm impressed by the speedy and comprehensive response.
Back in the eighties I had a 32ft Illingworth and I put a manual winch on it after getting fed up with the back breaking work of pulling the anchor up. When the water's all lumpy and the winds up you cant always get above the anchor with the engine and pulling 5 tons into a 25 knot wind is no joke. I've got basically the same gear on my serendipity 29 and I'm not as strong as I was.
If the advice I had about vertical winches is just to prevent deck chafe that's easily fixed, so I dont have to reject winches that dont suit a 4" thick deck.
Its good to know about the Muir winches. I expect manufacturers inflated figures but that's a bit over the top. The next in line is the H900 Easyweigh - they dont mention a 1100W Easyweigh but then there's a lot they dont say. I heard the H900 is the one that's made in China, not that that proves anything. With 180kg working load would it do the job?
I accept my idea of 35kg working load has no legs but even so.... The maximum load of most winches is 4 times the working load so I thought that should cover the stuck anchor scenario. Allowing for inflated figures it seems I need a min 100kg working load. Does that sound right for a 30' yacht?
I totally agree about good ground tackle. When I bought Giselle II she had 10 meters chain and a bit of rope in a plastic box lashed to the foredeck! Horrifying! I've anchored in some wild and windy places but never in over 40' depth so I think I have enough now.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers, Graham

[brianlara 3]

Hey Graham. I've been on a Serendipity, in Batemans Bay 6 years ago.
You've given me a shake up. I thought that my windlass was 1100 but I was wrong... 900 !!
Yep, Muir only do one Easy Weigh, suits 8mm chain and I love mine.
My first windlass on this boat was a Lewmar Pro 1000 which died at 11 months.
Terrible grinding sounds so being an old mechanic and not wanting the pain of a warranty claim I pulled it apart myself, only to find that many of the components were seriously under engineered. The Aus distributor replaced it no questions asked with a new one. They were happy to get the old thing in pieces, being embarrassed as they were.
Less than a year later same thing happened again and so I'd had enough and bought the Muir......more than three years later and dropping the pick nearly twice a week the Muir still sounds sweet.
One caveat though. What comes in the box is NOT as depicted on Muirs website.
The website shows a removable plate on the starboard side of the body onto which is proudly cast in bold letters M U I R but NOT SO!!!
There is NO removable plate (as depicted) allowing access to the electric motor. And to ad insult to (con) injury, the name MUIR is nowhere to be seen other than on the box. Even the image on the box is different to what's inside.
Too many calls to Muir produced nothing more than 2 silver stickers and a Muir baseball cap.
But I'd had a gutful by then and just bit the bullet hoping that it might last longer the other Lewmar rubbish and its been brilliant.
If you want to know what the Muir Easy weigh looks like go into a Whitworths store where you'll find the same thing listed by them as a BADA Hi Speed windlass......identical, seems they are made in Thailand and sold worldwide under various names.
Muir will sell direct if they are sure that you aren't a dealer W(Whitworths) snooping on Muir who do sell direct.
Mine came with all the gear, circuit breaker, relay, cockpit rocker switch etc. (the ancillaries were genuine MUIR).
Muir certainly, by admission, don't make them and if I had to buy another one I'd get it from Muir with all the gear instead of Whitties who sell all the bits separately.
Any further help send me a private message and I'll give you my mobile #/
Or, keep posting.
Cheers Graham. Brian Metcalfe.
Might be wrong, but I suspect that the BADA units are source by Whitworths from MUIR who toss out the Muir boxes and re-box them for W's in "BADA" boxes. The whitworths BADA ancillaries are identical, same factory, as the ones supplied to me by Muir.......I think either is a safe bet. If and when mine dies I'll get another from either one of the suppliers.

[brianlara 3]

Forgot to mention Graham, if I had an Eastcoast 31 or say a Traditional 30 or even something like a Nantucket Island 33, Catalina 34...I'd have exactly the same ground tackle as i presently have...Muir/Bada included. Fwiw.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Graham.

[giselle II]

Brian, not sure how this thing works. I replied to your email but got a message from CF saying it went to them not you. But you emailed me privately, so how do I do it? Did you get my email?
I got you latest post about your ground tackle, given me food for thought.
Cheers.

[giselle II]

G'day Brian,
I've been at work, now waiting for cooler weather to paint the deck.
Not being IT generation I dont know how to send a private message so yes, it would be good to ring you.
About this minimum 75M chain - my memory's not always the best and it's 30 years since I was cruising but I seem to remember that 20 fathoms was considered good by deep water sailors, and a 40 kg anchor would be pretty massive on my boat. Did you find that 66M wasn't enough?
Atm it looks like I'll go with the H900, when I get the chain locker sorted.
I want to get it right cos I want to add to the more than a quarter of the way round Aus that I've sailed so far.
Cheers!

[brianlara 3]

Graham. I just sent you a private message with my email and my mobile #
Cheers B

[giselle II]

Brian, Whatever gremlin stops me emailing you privately as you have to me, is now working both ways - you last message to me with info didn't arrive!

I got the cooler weather but with thunder and rain so the deck is still unpainted.

[brianlara 3]

Graeme. Email me at brianrmetcalfe@hotmail.com