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Old 24-12-2013, 03:26   #61
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Re: Anchor outs not welcome?

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Nor a fair wage in your view?
Yes, that don't exist either .

But, nonetheless I am in favour of a Statutory Minimum wage - set at a level where an employee does not also require assistance from Govt Benefits, Charity or Family to survive (apologies to Walmart etc)......that's not because it is "fair" but because a) I am against subsidies to business (especially hidden ones) b) because not artificially creating and sustaining mass poverty makes a society more civilised to live in for everyone and c) because having folks who can afford to be consumers makes business sense.

Personally, I feel that if a business cannot afford to pay it's employees a living wage then it is not economic enough to survive - tough titty, welcome to the freemarket .....and if it can afford to but chooses not to, then it / the owners are a parasite on the society it operates in and should be dealt with like all parasites - squashed .

It is possible to run a business with decently paid employees - but only when the rules of the market are not intentionally set to require all businesses to race to the bottom.

A bit of thread drift .
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Old 24-12-2013, 04:24   #62
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

I think there are two separate issues:
- You never act openly antagonistic to customers. Even if you don't care if they will never use your services ever again, the antagonistic attitude can carry over or be overheard by others who don't realize they will not be seen the same.
- In the overall business plan, you can't be all things to all people and hope to be successful. Purposely setting up rules that discourage low profit customers is a valid approach.
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Old 24-12-2013, 04:38   #63
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

I probably buy larger amounts of fuel than the average cruisers, however I will not kiss anyone's ass for the privilege, neither do I want my butt kissed. Common civil exchange is what I expect and if I don't receive that, I will move on, even in the middle of a refueling, if someone tries to rub their ass in my face. If you have a problem with anchor outs then don't serve them, don't crap on them when they come for service. Yes some sailing vessels will take more time than they are worth, that is part of the business. If it creates a real problem for you, then you could set a schedule during the off peak hours when you will be happy to serve the lesser clients. The thing is you never know who you are dealing with, I've known guys that run around in bib overalls, that walked into a bank to buy a boat and came out with over $2,00,000 USD to make the deal, and they didn't even have a gun! As previously posted, today's daysailer may be tomorrows superyacht captain.
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Old 24-12-2013, 05:04   #64
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Re: Anchor outs not welcome?

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A bit of thread drift .

Just a bit so I figured I would bump it along
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Old 24-12-2013, 05:34   #65
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

More appropriate and effective would be for everyone who responded to this post to send an email to the marina in question stating they will be avoided in the future. I sent my email.
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Old 24-12-2013, 05:52   #66
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

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More appropriate and effective would be for everyone who responded to this post to send an email to the marina in question stating they will be avoided in the future. I sent my email.
Do you think this will change that guy's attitude? In my mind it'll make him hate sailboats all the more. Just avoid the place, it seems he didn't want you there anyway.
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Old 25-12-2013, 19:51   #67
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Re: Anchor outs not welcome?

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I don't really expect the same service as the guy with the big trawler.
I see that as a problem. I certainly do expect the same service.

If I walk into "The Cut" in Beverly Hills and only want to buy an appetizer and a glass of wine I expect the same service as the guy next to me that is buying a $250 Kobi porterhouse and a $1000 bottle of cristal, and I will get it.

That is the difference between professionals and amateurs. Amateur Managers and workers in all businesses often make the mistake of aiming for profit over customer satisfaction and while the profit will often follow, it is very often short lived. This is a training and business coaching problem.

It is the owners job to create a business that profits, its the Managers and Line Workers job to make the business run.
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Old 25-12-2013, 20:02   #68
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Re: Anchor outs not welcome?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Yes, that don't exist either .

But, nonetheless I am in favour of a Statutory Minimum wage - set at a level where an employee does not also require assistance from Govt Benefits, Charity or Family to survive (apologies to Walmart etc)......that's not because it is "fair" but because a) I am against subsidies to business (especially hidden ones) b) because not artificially creating and sustaining mass poverty makes a society more civilised to live in for everyone and c) because having folks who can afford to be consumers makes business sense.

Personally, I feel that if a business cannot afford to pay it's employees a living wage then it is not economic enough to survive - tough titty, welcome to the freemarket .....and if it can afford to but chooses not to, then it / the owners are a parasite on the society it operates in and should be dealt with like all parasites - squashed .

It is possible to run a business with decently paid employees - but only when the rules of the market are not intentionally set to require all businesses to race to the bottom.

A bit of thread drift .
Some thread drift is good for society and some comments are worth quoting in full.



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Old 26-12-2013, 05:46   #69
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

I had never thought much on whether marinas hated sailboats, but now that I have read this thread I can see some reason to it.
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Old 26-12-2013, 06:02   #70
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

They don't hate sailboats if you just sit in your slip -pay the rent-and never use your boat--then you are the ideal marina customer.
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Old 26-12-2013, 06:15   #71
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

Ive had cruising sailboats almost continuously since 1971. That's 42 years. During this long period I have strenuously avoided marinas as much as possible. Ive been successful around 90% of the time.----I have been able to find slips and docks behind houses and apt bldgs. and even empty lots on the water. Fortunately Ive lived near the ICW in Florida most of the time. I have probably saved 25000 in forced liability insurance and 30000 in higher Marina costs--Im now paying 275/mo at a beautiful house vs 611/mo at marina where I bought boat Not to speak of ridiculous constraining Marina 'rules' and arseholes like this thread is about. When I need fuel for a trip-I call for a truck with a long hose..... Yippee.......
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Old 26-12-2013, 06:56   #72
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

It has been interesting to read the variety of responses to my original post. I'm sure that servicing sailboats when they actually don't need to buy anything is a bit of a pain. I've been giving a bit of thought to this. The problem here in Melbourne is that there are only 3 pump out stations within 20 miles and it's 35 miles minimum to the 3 mile limit. One pumpout is inaccessible to catamarans and one is privately owned and charges $25. MHM took the state money to put in his pumpout station and now is required to serve anyone who comes for a $10 maximum fee. I guess taking the state money was a poor business decision on his part. There is also a yacht club across the harbor that is almost all sailboats. This is a real sailing club so my guess is they use the pumpout much more often than they buy fuel. Though the guy said anchor outs he probably has more of a problem with sailboats. As pointed out by many, sailboats often require services such as pump outs and water much more often than they need fuel. I've also been giving some thought to what is done with boat registration fees in Florida. They are supposed to be used for building and maintaining facilities and mostly what this means is boat ramps. They are really not much use to those of us who do not own trailerable boats. So as far as I can tell virtually nothing is done for us. Perhaps we could prevail upon the state to install a small dock with a self service pumpout and water faucet at intervals along the intracoastal. The water could even be metered and charged at the local city rate. A simple credit card swipe machine could be used to collect fees. I'm sure some lawyer will find a problem with this idea so it probably can't be done, but it would remove the burden from Marina owners.

If this could be done near boat ramps it might also solve the problem of high coliform counts near boat ramps. You don't really think that those small boaters carry their portapotties home full do you? Wilmington NC used high coliform counts near boat ramps as an excuse to make the area a no discharge zone. The fact that boats that use boat ramps don't use Electrosans, which were the only things outlawed by the no discharge zone designation, was irrelevant to the politicians making the request to the EPA.

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Old 26-12-2013, 07:19   #73
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

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The problem here in Melbourne is that there are only 3 pump out stations within 20 miles and it's 35 miles minimum to the 3 mile limit. One pumpout is inaccessible to catamarans and one is privately owned and charges $25. MHM took the state money to put in his pumpout station and now is required to serve anyone who comes for a $10 maximum fee. I guess taking the state money was a poor business decision on his part.
I don't recall from your original post where he wouldn't give you a pump out for the state mandated $10 fee but I'm willing to bet that the pump out deal didn't require him to take your trash or provide drinking water. I also doubt there was a friendlyness clause.

I would also be willing to bet the pump out draws in more than enough big fuel thirsty power boats who only want to make one stop that it was well worth dealing with the state funding rules.

The more I read the responses and think about it. I doubt he cares if anchor outs who come thru once a year and buy a 100 gallons of fuel bypass him. They aren't his target market. So while I think it's silly to be antagonistic, I doubt it will have any significant effect on his buisness.
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Old 26-12-2013, 07:39   #74
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pirate Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

I lived aboard my small sailboat in MHM for a short while way back in '05. I had a shore job, otherwise I'd have been on the hook over in Eau Gallie. The owners then also owned the yacht brokerage. The managing partner was a tall guy, 60 or so, named Tom, I think.

Dunno if it's the same guy now but back then, he was very pleasant to me, a slip renter. However, part of the deal there was we all had to move out several weekends a year for "boat shows." He was a powerboat/broker guy all the way. And a stuffed shirt. Spent 90% of his time in the bar.

Sounds like the same gent to me.
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Old 26-12-2013, 07:51   #75
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Re: Anchor Outs Not Welcome?

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I don't recall from your original post where he wouldn't give you a pump out for the state mandated $10 fee but I'm willing to bet that the pump out deal didn't require him to take your trash or provide drinking water. I also doubt there was a friendlyness clause.
I can't figure out what point you are trying to make

You can find out if he provided the required $10 pumpout if you hit "first" in the upper right corner, that takes you straight to the original post.



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