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Old 28-06-2014, 06:44   #16
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Re: Anchor line snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I made several soft shackles early this year (Santa brought me fids for Xmas ).
Ones made with 6mm Dyneema did not fit through our 10mm chain easily, so 5mm was selected. One has been used to connect the snubber to our chain for just over 2 months now full time.

It has worked brilliantly. With use it has stretched so it slides through the link very easily now (we will use a 6mm one next time). It passes over the bow roller with ease, so it can be secured on deck. It ties and unties very quickly.

I could not tighten the diamond knot stopper in a vice, so left a reasonable tail, as recommended. It slid initially about ˝ cm and no further since.

The shackle is now looking a little dog-eared, so I think it will need frequent replacement given our full time use. Possibly every 6 months? They are cheap and easy to make.

I have just snapped a shot of it in use:
Besides making it easier to get the attachment point on deck for untying it, what is the point of using the soft shackle? Or is that the whole point? It does seem a lot of trouble if there is no compelling need for it -- you need an eye splice in the snubber; you have to buy or make up the shackle, etc.

But even that might be enough reason for me to try it, as it really is a bit of a pain to hang out over the pulpit to get the knot off, especially in lively weather. This does not apply to my thinner snubbers (less than 16mm), but my standard snubber is 16mm and won't come back in over the bow roller easily, especially if it has been down a few days. Nylon swells up when soaked in water. It will go down over the roller, however, so this problem only occurs when lifting the anchor.
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Old 28-06-2014, 07:49   #17
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Re: Anchor line snubber

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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
The Shockles snubber was tested by Practical Sailor and I don't remember the specifics but it broke at fairly low loads Shockles Snubber Test - Practical Sailor Article

With your 30 feet of chain you'll always have enough nylon out (at least 10 feet) so you don't need a snubber: let's say for instance that you have 3 feet of freeboard, and you anchor in at least 7 feet of water with a 4:1 minimum scope. You need 40 feet of rode, which includes your 10 feet of nylon.
I would never use shackles for and anchor snubber. The rubber snubber I use are a safety fuse on the bridal. If they break then the bridal just will not take the shock loads well anymore. Been using mine for two years now and it's been SWEET.
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Old 28-06-2014, 08:15   #18
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Re: Anchor line snubber

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Besides making it easier to get the attachment point on deck for untying it, what is the point of using the soft shackle? Or is that the whole point? It does seem a lot of trouble if there is no compelling need for it -- you need an eye splice in the snubber; you have to buy or make up the shackle, etc.

But even that might be enough reason for me to try it, as it really is a bit of a pain to hang out over the pulpit to get the knot off, especially in lively weather. This does not apply to my thinner snubbers (less than 16mm), but my standard snubber is 16mm and won't come back in over the bow roller easily, especially if it has been down a few days. Nylon swells up when soaked in water. It will go down over the roller, however, so this problem only occurs when lifting the anchor.
Advantages:
- A soft shackle goes over the bow roller easily, so there is no need to lean over the pulpit (hard if the boat is pitching about and much slower if there is an emergency)
- It can be done up and undone very quickly and easily
- It can be cut easily if it ever jams

I am happy to send you a couple if you would like to try them out .
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Old 28-06-2014, 12:03   #19
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Re: Anchor line snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Advantages:
- A soft shackle goes over the bow roller easily, so there is no need to lean over the pulpit (hard if the boat is pitching about and much slower if there is an emergency)
- It can be done up and undone very quickly and easily
- It can be cut easily if it ever jams

I am happy to send you a couple if you would like to try them out .
Thank you! Very kind of you; with pleasure.

But why do you care about the last two? Rolling hitch never jams no matter how much strain it's been under; it is one of those truly jam-proof knots. In fact, I untie mine with literally one finger since I'm hanging out over the pulpit. Push the end through with one finger and the knot falls apart, and Bob's your mother's brother.

So as far as I can see, the only disadvantage of the rolling hitch is that it won't (in my case) go over the bow roller, after it's been soaking in sea water for a few days.
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Old 28-06-2014, 12:26   #20
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Re: Anchor line snubber

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Thank you! Very kind of you; with pleasure.

But why do you care about the last two? Rolling hitch never jams no matter how much strain it's been under; it is one of those truly jam-proof knots. In fact, I untie mine with literally one finger since I'm hanging out over the pulpit. Push the end through with one finger and the knot falls apart, and Bob's your mother's brother.

So as far as I can see, the only disadvantage of the rolling hitch is that it won't (in my case) go over the bow roller, after it's been soaking in sea water for a few days.
Well, one out of three isn't bad . Point 1 is a huge advantage in rough conditions. Enough reason to use a soft shackle even if 2 & 3 are not issues for you.

I still think point 2 is still an advantage though. We used a Prussic loop attached with a Klemheist previously and this was significantly slower to attach than the soft shackle is now. I can't imagine I could tie a rolling hitch as quickly either. You must have very dextrous fingers .
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Old 28-06-2014, 13:02   #21
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Re: Anchor line snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Well, one out of three isn't bad . Point 1 is a huge advantage in rough conditions. Enough reason to use a soft shackle even if 2 & 3 are not issues for you.

I still think point 2 is still an advantage though. We used a Prussic loop attached with a Klemheist previously and this was significantly slower to attach than the soft shackle is now. I can't imagine I could tie a rolling hitch as quickly either. You must have very dextrous fingers .
I'm not very dextrous either especially on a pitching foredeck with the other end of a snubber line in my hands ready to cleat off And I HAVE had a rolling hitch jam on me when it got wet, no problem as I keep a spring assist opening knife in my pocket but it did cost me time re-whipping the ends of the cut rope.
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Old 28-06-2014, 13:21   #22
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Re: Anchor line snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Well, one out of three isn't bad . Point 1 is a huge advantage in rough conditions. Enough reason to use a soft shackle even if 2 & 3 are not issues for you.

I still think point 2 is still an advantage though. We used a Prussic loop attached with a Klemheist previously and this was significantly slower to attach than the soft shackle is now. I can't imagine I could tie a rolling hitch as quickly either. You must have very dextrous fingers .
Well, I am a former musician

But a rolling hitch is nothing -- what, two seconds? Three? Certainly less than five. Why in the world would you need Prussics and Kleimheists?

But I agree that one out of three isn't bad and will try this with interest. The main obstacle is that I will have to do an eye splice in octoplait which I have no idea how to do, but I guess there's a first time for everything
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Old 28-06-2014, 13:26   #23
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Re: Anchor line snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I had never understood the point of using soft shackles for this. But looking at your photo, I wonder whether the end of the snubber with that would come up over the bow roller, rather than having to be untied by hanging out over the pulpit. Hmm. Maybe worth trying that.

Gorgeous windlass. Why are so many good boats provided with wimpy vertical windlasses and no sampson posts?
The port side line goes over the port roller and the starboard line over the starboard roller. Both lines are led on the outside of the pulpit to the cleats.

Ken
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Old 28-06-2014, 13:30   #24
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Re: Anchor line snubber

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I went all out last summer and constructed the super snubber pictured. On board, we never even feel like we're at anchor. No tugging, grinding noises, plenty of shock absorbing. Completely unnecessary, but I'm glad I have it.
The portside line is led over the port roller, and the starboard line is led over the starboard roller. Both lines are outside the pulpit and lifelines on their way to the cleats & out of the way.
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Old 28-06-2014, 13:36   #25
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Re: Anchor line snubber

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Well, I am a former musician

But a rolling hitch is nothing -- what, two seconds? Three? Certainly less than five. Why in the world would you need Prussics and Kleimheists?
The Prussic loop is permanent and the Klemheist does not take much longer than a rolling hitch to tie. The rolling hitch can slip. I am just reading Estarzingers thread on load testing results from way back in January and coincidentally came across this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
....After sitting out a 50 knot blow I found that the rolling hitch, while not slipping on the chain, had almost pulled through. (I had a backup bridle attached to the chain as well).
It may not have happened to you (yet?), but it can happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The main obstacle is that I will have to do an eye splice in octoplait which I have no idea how to do, but I guess there's a first time for everything
First time for almost everything .
I wrote up a very easy method for splicing octoplait here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...it-104817.html
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Old 28-06-2014, 14:08   #26
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Re: Anchor line snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
...Ones made with 6mm Dyneema did not fit through our 10mm chain easily, so 5mm was selected. One has been used to connect the snubber to our chain for just over 2 months now full time.

It has worked brilliantly. With use it has stretched so it slides through the link very easily now (we will use a 6mm one next time). It passes over the bow roller with ease, so it can be secured on deck. It ties and unties very quickly.......
I tie a small section of waxed twine to the loop end of the soft shackle. That goes through the chain hole and makes it easy to pull the shackle through.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
....
I could not tighten the diamond knot stopper in a vice, so left a reasonable tail, as recommended. It slid initially about ˝ cm and no further since.
...
I tighten mine by putting the new shackle around a big cleat and the loop of a large line. Then take that line back to may genoa winch and crank done as hard as I can. Seems to work fine. I still leave some tail, instead of cutting it off flush.
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Old 28-06-2014, 14:17   #27
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Re: Anchor line snubber

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I tie a small section of waxed twine to the loop end of the soft shackle. That goes through the chain hole and makes it easy to pull the shackle through.

I tighten mine by putting the new shackle around a big cleat and the loop of a large line. Then take that line back to may genoa winch and crank done as hard as I can. Seems to work fine. I still leave some tail, instead of cutting it off flush.
Thanks for the tips. I will try both .

Leaving some tail may be less pleasing aesthetically, but I think it is much safer, even after pre-tightening.
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Old 28-06-2014, 14:49   #28
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Re: Anchor line snubber

Dockhead,

Have you ever tried using a polyester snubber? The reasons I ask are (1) we've used polyester three-strand in places where the nylon stretched too much, and it performed well. And it won't absorb water like nylon does.

I do not know anyone using polyester for snubbers, but if you use a long one, you should get satisfactory shock damping. Just a thought. Another experiment to try.

What we're using now, is nylon, but it's double braid, and we use a chain hook, rather than soft shackles. Never had it come off unintentionally.

Ann
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Old 29-06-2014, 07:04   #29
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Re: Anchor line snubber

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
...we use a chain hook, rather than soft shackles. Never had it come off unintentionally.
I'm still experimenting, and the chain hook seems to work so far, but I'd like to hear more.

I'm also curious as to what's wrong with letting the bridle line run through the eye of the chain hook, rather than splicing two lines, port and starboard. Obviously I'm missing something, but it seems to me it might even absorb more shock loading since it's spread across the whole length, not just one side or the other.
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Old 29-06-2014, 07:05   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Dockhead,

Have you ever tried using a polyester snubber? The reasons I ask are (1) we've used polyester three-strand in places where the nylon stretched too much, and it performed well. And it won't absorb water like nylon does.

I do not know anyone using polyester for snubbers, but if you use a long one, you should get satisfactory shock damping. Just a thought. Another experiment to try.

What we're using now, is nylon, but it's double braid, and we use a chain hook, rather than soft shackles. Never had it come off unintentionally.

Ann
Nylon absorbs a lot more energy for a given amount of strength than polyester, so in my opinion it is far superior for snubbers. If one nylon snubber is too stretchy, I would use a thicker or shorter nylon snubber, not go to polyester. Polyester will work of course, and I use polyester for the rope rode of my secondary anchor, because polyester is way better than nylon for chafe resistance, and does not suffer from overheating failure under cyclical loads like nylon. But a polyester snubber will have to be much weaker or much longer than a nylon snubber of the same energy absorbing capacity.
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