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Old 11-01-2016, 06:33   #76
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Not that I have heard. Scope is the ratio. 2 scopes means nothing.

But "2 shackles" may have been what the person meant meaning 2 x 30 meters.

I just use meters so everyone knows what I am talking about (except Americans!)




Mark
Maybe he was talking about 2 x water depth
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:22   #77
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pirate Re: Anchor Etiquette

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Maybe he was talking about 2 x water depth
Maybe he'll come back.. read this and explain..
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:27   #78
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

Scope is common usage by all the seafarers who hail from Nottingham, England, that well known nautical town where I come from.
It originated as the average distance a man could walk out of the pub, before he fell down.
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:49   #79
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Maybe he was talking about 2 x water depth
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Not that I have heard. Scope is the ratio. 2 scopes means nothing.

But "2 shackles" may have been what the person meant meaning 2 x 30 meters.

I just use meters so everyone knows what I am talking about (except Americans!)


Mark
As an American I take offense to that because I know what a meter is... I use mine to measure voltage and the like.

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Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
Scope is common usage by all the seafarers who hail from Nottingham, England, that well known nautical town where I come from.
It originated as the average distance a man could walk out of the pub, before he fell down.
Now that explains some of this thread, Thanks


But seriously as someone VERY new to all this if I were to sail up to a anchorage like this how does one tell at a glance how much of a swing, scope,??, another boat needs? How much room I should leave? How far away should I stay?
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:00   #80
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

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Originally Posted by Salty Mike View Post
. . . But seriously as someone VERY new to all this if I were to sail up to a anchorage like this how does one tell at a glance how much of a swing, scope,??, another boat needs? How much room I should leave? How far away should I stay?
If you anchor like every one else -- similar scope and same technique -- and if your boat is even roughly similar in terms of windage and size to other boats in the anchor, everyone tends to swing the same way, and boats swinging into each other is very rare.

This is one thing which cruisers paranoid about others anchoring "too close" often don't really understand.

I've never in 30 years of cruising swung into another boat, or been swung into. I have had boats drag into me, and once many years ago in Croatia I dragged into one Italian boat in a violent storm (which had a big crew who in a very gracious and friendly way helped fend me off), but never swinging interference.

It's important to get spaced right and understand, when you put the anchor down, how your boat will lie. So don't put your anchor down a "scope" in front of another boat, as you will fall back right onto him. But you can put your anchor down just behind another boat, and preferably a bit offset, and even squeeze into a fairly narrow space like that -- if you very well understand how your boat will lie.

Boats using a very different scope from others can mess up this system, however, an especially using a different method, which was the point of much of this discussion.

My present boat is much bigger than the typical boats in the anchorages I use nowadays, but that has the advantage of heavier and longer ground tackle, so possible to anchor in deeper water, which I typically do. Nowadays I typically anchor a bit further out than the crowd.

Catamarans swing differently from monos, and you should give them a wide berth in the anchorage.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:15   #81
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pirate Re: Anchor Etiquette

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Mike View Post
But seriously as someone VERY new to all this if I were to sail up to a anchorage like this how does one tell at a glance how much of a swing, scope,??, another boat needs? How much room I should leave? How far away should I stay?
I like to take a couple off turns around the anchorage to get an idea of how boats are lying to wind and current.. chain up-n-down or at an angle.. who's using rope.. which is important if I drop in behind as they will fall back a lot faster than me with all chain if the wind picks up etc.. assess the best available spot for me..
Then drop the hook.. or.. move on if not happy.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:27   #82
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

Mike, generally we use scope between 3:1 and 5:1, depending on the density of the anchorage. 5:1 is nice but not always achievable in a crowded anchorage. Scope is measured from the depth of the anchor plus height to high tide plus height of the anchor roller. Let's say that distance is 6m. If you drop the anchor and let out 30m of rode you will have a scope of 5:1. Let our 18m and you will have 3:1. Generally it's a good idea to either drop your anchor a bit behind another boat that is at the extent of its rode. That can be difficult to judge in some anchorages, especially if tide and wind has made them swing over their anchors, or if they are just laying to their chain. Sometimes the anchor might be 10m off their beam. The best thing to do is ask someone on board if they know where their anchor is, and how much rode they have out. It's also ok to drop the anchor midway between 2 other yachts transoms that are anchored next to each other. Try to avoid ending up over someone else's anchor, or someone ending up over yours, but that's not always practical in tight anchorages. Assuming you all have similar scope and similar depths and anchoring systems (no stern anchors or double anchors in line) you should all swing in a relatively similar fashion and stay clear of each other. Yachts to steer clear of are with different anchoring techniques. A yacht with rope rode will swing differently to one with chain. A yacht with his anchor still on deck and a mooring buoy tied alongside will have a different swing (yes some anchorage have a lone mooring buoy in the middle...)
A yacht with two anchors as mentioned above will have a random swing, fortunately that's not a common practice.
Start with those basics, stay aboard for a while to see how things settle in and be prepared to relocate if conditions change and you end up closer than desired to other yachts. We reanchored three times the other day at English harbour as conditions changed and others swing circles become apparent, along with tide and wind effects.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:47   #83
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Anchor Etiquette

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Originally Posted by Salty Mike View Post
As an American I take offense to that because I know what a meter is... I use mine to measure voltage and the like.



Now that explains some of this thread, Thanks


But seriously as someone VERY new to all this if I were to sail up to a anchorage like this how does one tell at a glance how much of a swing, scope,??, another boat needs? How much room I should leave? How far away should I stay?

Mike, you can just ask the people on the already anchored boat. I'm always surprised when a newly arriving boat comes in close to my boat and drops anchor without first asking me how much chain I have out.

The ones who do speak to me, ask about my scope, etc also seem to be the ones who know how to handle their boats and who anchor effectively and backing down to set their anchors. And I get to meet some interesting people too.

Conversely, if you speak to another boat as you come in and they don't know how much chain they have out or they have far less than makes sense for the depth of water then you know you should move away from them.


S/V B'Shert
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:49   #84
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I like to take a couple off turns around the anchorage to get an idea of how boats are lying to wind and current.. chain up-n-down or at an angle.. who's using rope.. which is important if I drop in behind as they will fall back a lot faster than me with all chain if the wind picks up etc.. assess the best available spot for me..
Then drop the hook.. or.. move on if not happy.
I do the same but call it a "Drive by".

I set 3:1 scope unless there is a storm.
5:1 is for storms and folks who take up too much room.

If a storm is predicted lay it all put. And if there's no space them move the boat so u have space to lay it all out.

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Old 11-01-2016, 11:01   #85
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

Is your "standard" 3:1 scope with all chain, or is that nylon rode too?

I've added 100 ft. of chain to the 30 ft. that was on the boat when we got it. And yeah, I used a 3/8" C-link to do it. There's another `200 ft. of nylon on the chain. So for our plans, with a 1 meter draft catamaran, that essentially is an all-chain setup. I think it will be rare for us to ever be anchoring in more than about 10 ft of water.

Now I'm looking at the anchor itself and wondering. The boat came with a plow type, looks like a Delta or copy. I also have a Fortress fluke type ( like a Danforth) and thinking of swapping that for a main anchor. I don't have much experience with plow anchors but a lot with Fortress.
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:05   #86
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

In areas where there are strong wind against tidal current situations, boats will move in unpredictable directions. A well known such place is La Paz harbour i n Baja California, where it is a daily feature and is known as the "La Paz Waltz". In such situations it is best to anchor somewhat further apart than described above, ideally so that swinging circles don't overlap at all.

La Paz is often crowded, and populated by new cruisers, and boats swinging into each other is not unknown. It is where I received my first anchoring lessons from kindly, experienced cruisers when Ann and I first set out in 1986. Guess why!
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Old 12-01-2016, 11:49   #87
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

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I do the same but call it a "Drive by".

I set 3:1 scope unless there is a storm.
5:1 is for storms and folks who take up too much room.

If a storm is predicted lay it all put. And if there's no space them move the boat so u have space to lay it all out.

3:1 just doesn't seem safe. A few weeks ago at the Bight we had 7:1 because we had room even though the weather was forecast to be good (I just had a feeling). Good thing because a series of squalls went through that night with gusts up to 30. The winds would drop to an average of 10 to 15 but did gust up to 30 four or five times that night. Even with that 7:1, which I did let out a bit during the night to about 9:1 and an anchor buried completely before nightfall, we dragged about 10 feet and felt the tug quite a few times during those gusts. I didn't sleep much that night.

Point is, squalls can roll through and kick it up without being forecast. A 3:1 scope is asking for trouble, IMO.

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Old 12-01-2016, 11:57   #88
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

I suppose it depends a lot on your ground tackle and the bottom right where the anchor is buried. We normally anchor on about 3:1, too, which sees us through about 25 knots of breeze, and will increase if need be. Anchorages are so crowded many places, that more than that seems taking more than one's fair share. Yet, no qualms about increasing scope if the wind gets up more.

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Old 12-01-2016, 12:09   #89
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

Thing with scope ratios is, they should vary with depth. 3:1 might be fine in 10 metres of water, but wouldn't be much good in 2 metres.

I work on about 20m chain as a minimum, and increase it if the water is deeper than about 4-5m.


If there isn't room for 20m I go elsewhere.
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Old 12-01-2016, 12:21   #90
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Re: Anchor Etiquette

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Thing with scope ratios is, they should vary with depth. 3:1 might be fine in 10 metres of water, but wouldn't be much good in 2 metres.

I work on about 20m chain as a minimum, and increase it if the water is deeper than about 4-5m.


If there isn't room for 20m I go elsewhere.
Yes, i agree.
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