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Old 17-09-2004, 19:57   #16
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Ummm - all of the above is quite good, but no one asked the obvious question: Irwinsailor, where do you sail and what kind of bottom do you most frequently encounter?
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Old 18-09-2004, 03:44   #17
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Quote:
harryrezz once whispered in the wind:
Ummm - all of the above is quite good, but what kind of bottom do you most frequently encounter?
Be very careful how you answer that
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Old 18-09-2004, 08:12   #18
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I have three anchors, a 45 pound Bruce, a 45 pound CQR on the bow and a large fortress on the stern. Coming down the ICW, the bruce set the best. It was always the first one I used with a couple of exceptions. I had trouble setting the CQR a couple of times and went to the bruce with no problems. I can't comment on break out force as once we were set we never dragged, enven in strong reversing tides. I have never used the fortress.

I have 300 feet of 1/4" high strength chain with each end attached to one anchor and the middle passing through an eye in the chain locker so you can pull the length to favor one anchor or the other.

The fortress is on a 300' length of webbing that is on a spool mounted to the aft rail. It has 30' of chain as well. It would not be hard to move it to the bow either on the webbing or hooking it to the chain, in the event that it's needed.

Based on conversations here and elsewhere I may swap out the CQR for a 45 or 55 pound Delta.

Woody
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Old 18-09-2004, 10:49   #19
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From my own observations and the test quoted above, the 45lb delta should be at least as good as either of the others you have.

There is a report on personal experience with a delta here

You carry a lot of weight up forward even with your double ended solution. Personnally I prefer to have a much heavier chain (3/8") for abt 30yds, and then rope, I have found that it helps the anchor dig in faster, holds better, and the nylon + the weight of that heavier rode help to reduce snatch loads. Plus the overall weight is reduced.

The 45 lb is 2 sizes larger than recommended for my boat so is proabably abt right for a heavy storm, which means that I would certainly recommend the 55 lb version for you with your sized chain.
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Old 18-09-2004, 11:43   #20
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Talking

So many opinions so hear is one more, when crossed the Pacific I took a plow, Danforth and bruce, I liked the Bruce best so have just bought 2 more 39Lb'ers last month from North Star anchors in washington state for 89$ each, they look great and have a good coat of zink on them and a good warenty so will see how they last. Next will get one of their 66Lb'ers when they have them in stock. A note for Talbot, was in the U.K. 2 weeks ago and went to the southhamton baot show and will say it was the best one I've been to yet.
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Old 18-09-2004, 14:52   #21
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Hi, went to Southampton Boat show on wednesday, and sailed past it yesterday!

Bruce would not be my anchor of choice. The test report on here talked about it continuing to drag, and that has just been replicated by the experiences of Mirabella
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Old 18-09-2004, 15:38   #22
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Wow, bad news on Mirabella.

Been rading about that ship in various magazines, the biggest single mast sailing ship ever, etc.

Seem to remember that she had a big Bruce, 250 lbs was it..?

(Correction: NOT 250 lbs, quite a bit more, but Brice type, here is the photos: )

http://boatdesign.net/gallery/showph...cat/all/page/1

Earlier this year I was the captain on a 70' motoryacht with a tiny little anchor that looked like it was purchased in a jewelry store.

I urgend the owner to install a 110 lbs Delta, but he of course wanted it in SS.
I called the manufactor several times to check if they could custom make one, as the biggest SS Delta is currently the 88 pounder.

Not so, the owner kept his little anchor cause it was SS.
My job on that yacht was over in January.
The boat has not been in the slip for quite a while....Wondering if he ever tried his little anchor and got blown on the rocks...?

It can happen to the big guys also..Seen it in the Bahamas several times.
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Old 18-09-2004, 16:15   #23
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Good news, Mirabella is off the rocks. I also would have thought a 200 odd pund anchor not being suitable for a vessel of this size. I mean, this is hardly a yacht as such, but a Ship with a mast.
I have got to see and here some of the inside stories of the making of this vessel. I bought a Bamar Furler for my boat at the same time a Bamar had just been fitted to Mirabella. So I got to talk to one of the guy's involved. I also have my sails being made by Doyles in NZ and they had samples of the material and photo's of what they did, including the furling equipment. All I can say is MATE!!!! It is BIG Mother stuff. Even the Mainsail material is more like cardboard than material and the thing weighed in at 1.5T. They couldn't even lift it on to the vessel let alone get it up the mast in one piece. They develped a way of doing it in sections and the sail battens "zip" the sections together.
She is really a feat of engineering.
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Old 18-09-2004, 19:01   #24
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In reply to Harryress. At this time we sail Lake Michigan, we will be moving to Florida and cruising the Carribean for as long as we like. I was planing to buy a 110lb CQR but after the trouble I had with it I started thinking about another type of anchor in case I could not get the CQR to hold. I have noticed many newer boats have Deltas, there may be a good reason.
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Old 18-09-2004, 20:56   #25
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Congrats Irwinsailor, a BIG Delta may just be the ticket, and they are cheaper than the, CQRs as well.

As for the Anchor size on the big yacht on the rocks:

She had 2 Bruce type anchors, one 1300 lbs, the other one 900 lbs. (600 and 400 kilograms)
The anchors were hand-made and shaped to fit the bow.
Guess that is important to the super-yacht crowd, the looks....

Other than that, it was heart breaking to see such a beatiful sailing machine on the rocks.....

I bet the captain wil be driving taxi cabs the rest of his life.
I bet he is not sleeping too good these days.
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Old 18-09-2004, 21:13   #26
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You carry a lot of weight up forward even with your double ended solution.
Talbot,

300 feet of 1/4" High Test chain weighs about 222 pounds.

30 yards (90 feet) or 3/8" BBB Chain is about 154 pounds. If I had two rodes set up like this I would be carrying much more weight forward than I am now.

The 1/4" chain has the same rated working load as 3/8" BBB, although it's ultimate breaking strength is lower. Having the cantenary and abrasion resistance of all chain has really helped me sleep better. I would recommend this setup for mid sized cats.

I think the reduced weight between the boat and the bottom also makes it easier on the windlass (and the back when hauling by hand).

The down side is the cost. It's about $1000 USD of chain. It will also need replacement sooner, as there is less corrosion allowance, Also I have read that the heat treating process requires a lower galvinizing temp and thus reduces corrosion resistance.

Woody
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Old 19-09-2004, 08:18   #27
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I have to correct my post...

I have 1/4" G7 chain, which has about the same weight as the HT chain, but has a maximum working load of 3200lbf, 550 lbf above 3/8" BBB.
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Old 19-09-2004, 12:29   #28
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working load differences are insignificant between these two. however work out the differences in static load on the catenary of the chain at your normal working anchorage depth - mine is normally in 5 fathoms or less. You will find that there is quite a difference.

My second anchor is a danforth with 10 yds of 3/8" chain, and lunch hook is a 22lb delta with again 10 yds of 3/8" chain - I have tried this with 20m of 5/16" chain and dont get anywhere near as good holding.
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Old 20-09-2004, 15:49   #29
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I have 1/4" G7 chain, which has about the same weight as the HT chain
G7?

I was looking for that grade of chain a few years ago when I upgraded my system, but never found it.
Settled for G4 instead.

How and where and at what cost did ya get the G7?

As for the mega/super yacht Mirabella V dragging anchor:

Some German newspaper reported that her anchorchain parted.
(As opposed to dragging anchor)

Does anybody have more details on that incident?
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Old 20-09-2004, 17:48   #30
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Mirabella V

On a boat that size and with the crew they have, you'd think they'd maintain an anchor watch. There really isn't much excuse for something like that happening.
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