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Old 05-03-2012, 03:27   #16
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

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Originally Posted by stillbuilding View Post
Just put it in the water and go asap.
Get it finished in Asia - lots of choices that will be better economically than doing the US thing maybe.
+1

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Would not sweat the US making a fast recovery - be years away yet.
+1 (FWIW (nada!) - Europe / UK same, it's not a recession, a depression or austerity, it's the start of economic reality arriving......still plenty to go).


If you manage to get to SE Asia, cheap as chips to stay (and live)somewhere ashore whilst the work progresses. Big plus to you being on the ground 24/7 is the ability to manage the Project.

In regard to the US Trawlers, the primary reason big boats like that are cheap (relatively!) is due to the big engines, both fuel consumption and age. Engine maintanence is the first thing to be skimped on when an Owner runs short of cash or a PO ran the boat from the getgo on wishful thinking / ignorance. The older the boat the more likely (nigh on a certainty) that the PO (or several of them!) were in the latter category......and simply throw in Age.

Google up the cost of replacement Engines / Gearboxes - and double the best deal you can find when boat located somewhere inconveniant when the engine(s!) go pop.....the good news is likely that will only be a constant drip drip of fixes ($$$) - until you reach the point a few years (or so) that you wish you'd bitten the bullet on day 1 to replace with new........not to say don't do it, but do so with eyes wide open.

If you haven't already, get onto a motorboat related forum and start reading some horror stories .

Having said all that - a large trawler would be great (could even fit a sailing dink on the back (maybe even a Cat?!)....and possibly a motorbike (a subject that seems in vogue on CF at the moment!).

Good luck
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:38   #17
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

CMD
Take a trip to the SE, work north from Florida. Boats in that part of the world are hammered by climate - sun and salt air - so age faster than in PNW or the Great Lakes. So they are a lot cheaper. But you can fix 'em up, and it will be fine as some are really cheap. Also look out for storm damaged ones. With your background and skills don't pay anything like your OP indicated. And just ditch the mega-HP monsters, fit an economical single engine.

Just get on a plane and get started.... It will swing you one way or the other: to do what other's suggest and get your build to SE Asia for finishing, or to be happy parking it. Believe me, you won't be happy with that decision until you've been on board a short-list of possibles. A trip is pretty cheap...

I'm waiting on surveys. If acceptable I close at month end. The days are 100 hours long right now...
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:12   #18
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

I'm "peeved" mostly because of the costs. $80 per hour for unskilled labor.
Many places in USA have places where day-laborers congregate. Negotiate time and rates. keen to work.
But not here.
I do most of the work myself and contract out bigger homogenous jobs. Would be very beneficial to have helper/laborer.
On another thread I was told 10 bucks a day for labor in Guatemala - this is good. I imagine similar in Asia.
USA is full of surprises and gotchas. Parts are surely cheaper than anywhere. But there is sales tax. Hotels, rental cars etc have many extra costs.
Caveat emptor.
There are no standards IMO for tradesmen in america. They do not have the 4 year apprenticeship etc.
So expect high rates, blatant liars, and unreliable service. Worse in the caribbean, and more for parts.
My opinion, and similar to your last thread. And seems to be the consensus - take a break - get the beast seaworthy and get it to asia - maybe ship it...Hawaii is nice this time of year.
Otherwise, I reckon you will buy a bag of bolts in USA - and have 2 incomplete projects...
cheers
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:32   #19
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

Are you guys serious, how many places in Aus do you pay $80 / hour for unskilled labour? Even here in Perth in the middle of a mining boom, you would only pay half that. Sure you pay big dollars for a skilled contractor but for unskilled casual labour, no way.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:57   #20
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

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Are you guys serious, how many places in Aus do you pay $80 / hour for unskilled labour? Even here in Perth in the middle of a mining boom, you would only pay half that. Sure you pay big dollars for a skilled contractor but for unskilled casual labour, no way.
I was talking about USA (at my present location). And that is my point - not happy. Elsewhere I could get cheaper casual labor.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:15   #21
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

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I was talking about USA (at my present location). And that is my point - not happy. Elsewhere I could get cheaper casual labor.
My apologies, I misunderstood. So are wages generally that high in the States or just around your location?

Sorry for the thread drift CMD.
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Old 08-03-2012, 14:51   #22
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

How far away from being launched is your boat CMD?

If you sell it as an unfinished project you'll take a major financial hit.
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Old 08-03-2012, 16:49   #23
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

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How far away from being launched is your boat CMD?
In motor away form with structural fitout and very basic wiring and plumbing about 12 mths full time, in reality 18mths and I have most of the big ticket items already to do it.

I've been saying that for a few years but, I haven't struck a blow in a few years apart from buying bits as they come up at heavily discounted prices
Quote:
If you sell it as an unfinished project you'll take a major financial hit.
I would/could be prepared to take a hit for the right boat.

She still only owes me about $70k in actual dollars not taking labour into account, but I think I would more than recoup that in the cheap cost of purchase of a sizeable US vessel plus cost of living in the US and surrounding areas Vs here.

And, I wouldn't have to lift a finger to achieve it.

But, I am starting to lean more heavily towards getting the boat to motorway and getting her to PSS Satun for finishing.

In reality I just dont think those 50ft Grand Banks and De Fevers have enough space on them in comparison to a 50ft cat and 60ft is just getting ridiculous.
Sure they have lots of little bedrooms, all dark with bugger all ventilation but I only need one, with a king size bed, light and airy and plenty of ventilation.
The fuel economy and range is lacking as well, 5000L for 2000nm @ 7 knots just isnt good enough and that seems to be about as good as it gets over there.
Those boats also have lots of toys and nice systems on them for the price, but they would own me, failing, requiring continual maintenance and money thrown at them.
I wanted simple and efficient and they just aren't it.

The reality is stop being a lazy bastard and back into it, and I'll still have a 50fter in the water and out of Oz well before I'm 50 years of age.
A few years latter than planned, but the world did change so I am told.

The delay has sort of worked in my favour, the wife's original expectation of finish at launch was like the million dollar plus schionnings but has now come back to what I was initially thinking which is achievable and her actual finished expectation has come back as well, upmarket work boat look is fine by her which is all I ever wanted.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:30   #24
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

Not been on many Trawlers - but was very surprised how small the Grand Banks are internally.

Anyway, all the best on moving the build forward - maybe a compromise and buy in some skills simply to push the build ahead? - appreciate that not the preffered option, but you recoup much of the money spent by getting to SE Asia sooner.

Whilst of course the structural works need to be done - why not do a very basic camping style fit out simply to get her to SE Asia (therefore no need for any plumbing or electrics!....a couple of paraffin or gas lamps, a chemical Khazi, and an inflatable bunk - the O/b controls won't even need to be hooked up as they will eventually be). Just an idea.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:06   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey
Not been on many Trawlers - but was very surprised how small the Grand Banks are internally.

Anyway, all the best on moving the build forward - maybe a compromise and buy in some skills simply to push the build ahead? - appreciate that not the preffered option, but you recoup much of the money spent by getting to SE Asia sooner.

Whilst of course the structural works need to be done - why not do a very basic camping style fit out simply to get her to SE Asia (therefore no need for any plumbing or electrics!....a couple of paraffin or gas lamps, a chemical Khazi, and an inflatable bunk - the O/b controls won't even need to be hooked up as they will eventually be). Just an idea.
+1

You will have a much more interesting and rewarding time if you just get the minimum done and get it and you to SEA where your adventure can begin. Just stow the gear below and get it fitted later. Have time to find good base for later work.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:07   #26
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

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snip
The fuel economy and range is lacking as well, 5000L for 2000nm @ 7 knots just isnt good enough and that seems to be about as good as it gets over there.
I think that's about right. Seems most are planing hulls, built heavy to take the weight of huge engines and stresses hitting waves when planing. So length to beam around 3, and often only semi-planing (ploughing?) performance.

Ideally a true displacement hull with length/beam of 4 or 5 to 1, a modest single engine would be a different story. Just can't seem to find one that could do coastal service without scaring s..t out of me though...

Your cat will likely take some beating, both on performance and space. DOJ's camping idea makes some sense.
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Old 09-03-2012, 13:28   #27
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
In motor away form with structural fitout and very basic wiring and plumbing about 12 mths full time, in reality 18mths and I have most of the big ticket items already to do it.

I've been saying that for a few years but, I haven't struck a blow in a few years apart from buying bits as they come up at heavily discounted prices

I would/could be prepared to take a hit for the right boat.

She still only owes me about $70k in actual dollars not taking labour into account, but I think I would more than recoup that in the cheap cost of purchase of a sizeable US vessel plus cost of living in the US and surrounding areas Vs here.

And, I wouldn't have to lift a finger to achieve it.

But, I am starting to lean more heavily towards getting the boat to motorway and getting her to PSS Satun for finishing.

In reality I just dont think those 50ft Grand Banks and De Fevers have enough space on them in comparison to a 50ft cat and 60ft is just getting ridiculous.
Sure they have lots of little bedrooms, all dark with bugger all ventilation but I only need one, with a king size bed, light and airy and plenty of ventilation.
The fuel economy and range is lacking as well, 5000L for 2000nm @ 7 knots just isnt good enough and that seems to be about as good as it gets over there.
Those boats also have lots of toys and nice systems on them for the price, but they would own me, failing, requiring continual maintenance and money thrown at them.
I wanted simple and efficient and they just aren't it.

The reality is stop being a lazy bastard and back into it, and I'll still have a 50fter in the water and out of Oz well before I'm 50 years of age.
A few years latter than planned, but the world did change so I am told.

The delay has sort of worked in my favour, the wife's original expectation of finish at launch was like the million dollar plus schionnings but has now come back to what I was initially thinking which is achievable and her actual finished expectation has come back as well, upmarket work boat look is fine by her which is all I ever wanted.
You just need to wander out to the shed one morning and get started! It pretty soon just becomes a kind of habit - go to the shed, do a day's work... I almost miss it. Almost.
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Old 09-03-2012, 22:55   #28
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Re: An Australian in the USA - How to do it ?

As a bitter and twisted old amateur builder there are a few things that seem to help on big projects.

It's easy to get too focused on the big picture. If I'm in the doldrums the best for me is to go to the boat and do a clean up. Clean ups lead to tidy ups and before I know it I'm doing some insignificant job, then annoyed I'll start doing something else and before I realise it I've actually done some useful work.

Having people help doesn't work for me. I work just as fast by myself and if I stuff something up I'm not paying $25 - $100 per hour for the privilege.

I give myself rewards, just 'cause I feel like it. An extra tool, some nice treat left on the boat, and, once every year or so, I take a real holiday for three + weeks.

Having all the tools and materials ready to use for a major job works too. It is so annoying to have everything ready to do the job and not to be actually doing it that I find I've irritated myself into working.
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