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Old 14-04-2017, 20:53   #61
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

Most boat owners defend the boat they currently have. The Bristols I recommended also have poor SA/Weight ratios-but they also do not have big beams so are more streamlined -they also have centerboards which combined with their narrower hulls make nice upwind-and the real lead down low makes for very easy motion.
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Old 14-04-2017, 22:17   #62
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

I would advise everyone looking for a new boat to pay at least some attention to PHRF ratings. While our focus is on cruising and not racing, we all love sailing and most sailing is done in 10-20 knot winds around the world. The Amel 53 may be a great boat but it is a 53 foot boat with a PHRF rating of 138 which is really poor. Compare to, say Beneteaus in this size range that are around 60. Another way to look at this is that a Hunter 34 (not my boat) that can be purchased for $20K would post the same time on a passage as an Amel 53. Difficult to believe but that is what the numbers say.
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Old 14-04-2017, 22:34   #63
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

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Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
I would advise everyone looking for a new boat to pay at least some attention to PHRF ratings. While our focus is on cruising and not racing, we all love sailing and most sailing is done in 10-20 knot winds around the world. The Amel 53 may be a great boat but it is a 53 foot boat with a PHRF rating of 138 which is really poor. Compare to, say Beneteaus in this size range that are around 60. Another way to look at this is that a Hunter 34 (not my boat) that can be purchased for $20K would post the same time on a passage as an Amel 53. Difficult to believe but that is what the numbers say.
Ok ,so here's real life. Left Davao Philippines two years ago with approx 8 other boats of varying types. 20-25knots forward of the beam. My friends amel was constantly leading the pack over the next couple of weeks and 500+nms, and doing it more comfortably.
If you think a Hunter 34 is going to out sail an Amel 53 over a variety of real world cruising scenerios then you have been spending to much time reading cruisers forum and looking at numbers. Amels get you there and get you there in reasonably good time. Another friend on an Amel had a best day of 215nm ( strong following wind)try getting your 34 ft hunter anywhere near that.
Is the Amel fast for a 53 ft boat? not really but its still faster than alot of cruising boats out there doing it over a wide range of conditions...cruising is not a inner bay flat water race.
The other thing with big boats is they arent always going faster but they are going the same speed as the little but not trying real hard.
An Amel isnt for me and they aren't perfect and their owners are almost religious BUT they are definitely a boat to respect, they do it well and they do it all over the place.

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Old 14-04-2017, 23:44   #64
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Bargy - OK. This is an argument at last.

You want something less bargy, you are not buying an Oyster either. Hylas i can't say but one look at SA/displacement tells you heaps.

Pigs do not fly.

Cheers,
b.
Well.... here's what an Oyster 53 looks like sailing in 8 knots of wind, making 6 knots of boat speed. Singlehanded.

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Old 15-04-2017, 13:02   #65
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
I would advise everyone looking for a new boat to pay at least some attention to PHRF ratings. While our focus is on cruising and not racing, we all love sailing and most sailing is done in 10-20 knot winds around the world. The Amel 53 may be a great boat but it is a 53 foot boat with a PHRF rating of 138 which is really poor. Compare to, say Beneteaus in this size range that are around 60. Another way to look at this is that a Hunter 34 (not my boat) that can be purchased for $20K would post the same time on a passage as an Amel 53. Difficult to believe but that is what the numbers say.
PHRF ratings are intended to predict time around the cans in controlled conditions (sheltered waters, moderate weather), NOT indeed ocean passage times. Two very different thing! You are using PHRF, for purposes for which it was not intended.

The Amel Super Maramu is not exactly a speed demon, but is nevertheless a solid sea boat which is capable of impressive passage times without stressing a short-handed crew. They regularly do 180 - 200 mile days in ocean conditions, which is beyond the hull speed of Hunter 34s (the comparison to which is obviously absurd). The low stress of the modest split rig results in passage times often exceeding those of lighter, twitchier, and POTENTIALLY faster Beneteaus of the same size. That is because sailing day in and day out for a couple of weeks, in all kinds of weather, is very different indeed from sailing around the cans, and favors the boat which takes care of her crew without stress.

Just look at ARC results, or Evans Starzinger's excellent long-term study of actual passage times, to see what I mean.

The only thing I don't like about the Amel's sailing qualities is that they don't go upwind too well. Trade winds sailors won't mind so much, but that would put a crimp in my sailing, in my area.
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Old 15-04-2017, 13:10   #66
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
. . . Is the Amel fast for a 53 ft boat? not really but its still faster than alot of cruising boats out there doing it over a wide range of conditions...cruising is not a inner bay flat water race.
The other thing with big boats is they arent always going faster but they are going the same speed as the little but not trying real hard.
An Amel isnt for me and they aren't perfect and their owners are almost religious BUT they are definitely a boat to respect, they do it well and they do it all over the place.. .
Hear, hear.

Whether the Super Maramu is "fast" compared to other boats of the same size -- depends on the conditions. It's hard to keep a faster boat going consistently fast, over a multi-week passage in ocean conditions, especially with a short handed crew. What you might achieve in a protected inner bay for a few minutes is totally different from what you can do for days on end in the ocean. In tough conditions and short handed crew, the Amels will hold their own with most anything of similar size, as long as you're not trying to get right upwind.

The big rig which is good for racing in light winds is terrible in the ocean, especially if you're doing anything upwind, because sails, especially headsails, lose a huge amount of efficiency once you've got even one roll in them, and the bigger rig creates more drag. Dashew's Sundeers are another example of a designer who worked really hard to keep the size of the rig down, to improve performance in strong weather and make the boat easier to handle in realistic cruising conditions. These also won't win any races around the cans, but can hardly be matched for ocean passage times by boats of similar size, even today, nearly 30 years after they were designed.

The Amel is a great boat. Not for me, but deserving admiration.
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Old 15-04-2017, 14:14   #67
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

Cruising is much different than sailing.Benny's are great sailboats, Amels are great cruising boats.

Why buy a Range Rover when all you do is drive to the mall?
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Old 16-04-2017, 07:32   #68
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

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Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
Humm! How often have you sailed in one??? Just asking for a balanced POV. Your statement is not helpful for OP.
Hi ! When, in November 2014, I was at Bock Marine**, getting my Ericson 34 ready for my singlehanded passage from Beaufort NC to St-Martin FWI, I met an american sailor who was fiddling on his SECOND Amel Maramu: He had already completed a round the world trip on his first Amel !
I assume that a round the world trip would have been a good enough test to change his mind about Amel if he hadn't been happy with his first one ???
**Great place, great people: Bock Marine
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Old 18-04-2017, 13:07   #69
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

geoleo shared: "Most boat owners defend the boat they currently have"

Perhaps - but it is more likely that they still hold the criteria bias that encouraged them to buy that boat is the first place.

I know I made compromises when I bought a light-to-medium displacement boat. But my intended cruising range was Florida and the Bahamas. As I became more familiar with the boat I better appreciated some of it's design and construction flaws. I'd share these with anyone.

What I'd find more interesting on this forum would be a discussion and ranking of selection criteria and perhaps how these would map to a sailor's chosen cruising range and cruising abilities.

For instance - draft is very important in the Bahamas and upwind performance is less important in the trades... A forgiving boat requires less skill in heavy weather... A newer boat under warranty requires less hands-on maintenance by the owner...

I acknowledge that the original poster listed three particular brands. I just think that while brand is perhaps a good indicator on construction quality - it is more important to consider cruising range, the owners ability to implement repairs and required performance attributes early in the process.

There is no question that stuff is going to break eventually on a well-constructed boat...
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Old 11-04-2019, 14:03   #70
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Re: Amel, Hylas or Oyster

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Hi All,
Wife and I have been re-searching, comparing, spreadsheeting many boats over the past year and have narrowed our choice down to these three (a few more made honorable mention). Budget is in the low $200s. All CC. Want safety, tankage, some sort of swim/gear step transom, genset, H2o maker, good size galley, crewed by 2, no teak you know the usual. Can get an Amel 1999-2003 or Oyster/Hylas 10 years older. Better selection of Oyster to choose from but most are in EU (pre-Brexit). Hylas comes second after Amel for features and I love layout of galley and passage to aft cabin (but rare in the $ range). Oyster is prettiest followed by Hylas then Amel but Amel ticks most boxes. Are my rose colored glasses broken, what am I missing. Any thoughts? Thanks for your time.
Chuck

I know this is two years old...So what did you go with?

I too was looking at Amels and Hylas during the same time period.

Amels were always my first choice. I really never thought much about the Hylas until the last boat I looked at each year at the Annapolis Boat show. I did not even know what boat it was, I just fell in love with the layout and topside looks.

Later I found out it was a Hylas. I was lucky and found one I could afford. So I bought it.

I really like the boat, it sails very well for my tastes. I still like the Amels, but my wife thought they were too dark on the interior. Since she is happy with the Hylas, so am I.
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