Amel, Hylas or Oyster

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

On this much we can agree. And you could have added many other boats to that list.

Based on the Jeanneau's I have inspected, and the one I helped deliver, I would recommend the OP simply avoid. Hylas is head and shoulders its superior.

I agree -- Hylas is superior. But so is the price. And the OP only has a budget in the low 200's all in.

I liked all of the Jeanneaus I sailed. I also liked the Beneteaus I sailed (several charters). There is lots of choice in that market segment. Some of these boats are badly built, and some have had structural issues. Some of them are awfully thinly laid up in the bows. You have to shop around, research, inspect carefully, and make a reasonable decision. Every potential choice has different tradeoffs.

[s/v Jedi]

But all the Jeanneaus and Beneteaus are built for chartering with, if lucky, an owners version that isn't made for full time liveaboard cruising either.

It's up to the OP to decide the intended use for the boat. If it is weekends and holidays then I would surely suggest the French mass produced. I would pick the Amel otherwise. I find the argument that a 20yr old Amel needs systems replaced completely irrelevant. Because you would expect many systems to have been replaced already and even if they weren't, that factor is the same as for any other boat.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

But all the Jeanneaus and Beneteaus are built for chartering with, if lucky, an owners version that isn't made for full time liveaboard cruising either.

It's up to the OP to decide the intended use for the boat. If it is weekends and holidays then I would surely suggest the French mass produced. I would pick the Amel otherwise. I find the argument that a 20yr old Amel needs systems replaced completely irrelevant. Because you would expect many systems to have been replaced already and even if they weren't, that factor is the same as for any other boat.

The replacing systems isnt irrelevant in this scenario if you only have 200k to spend. At 200k you are buying bottom of the barrel Amels that most likely need money spent, there goes the budget.

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[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by daletournier

The replacing systems isnt irrelevant in this scenario if you only have 200k to spend. At 200k you are buying bottom of the barrel Amels that most likely need money spent, there goes the budget.

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Can you give some examples of what will fail? Even if it costs more, at least you can live aboard instead of camping. Look at tank capacities, size of galley, lack of outside teak, not too much space used for more berths. How about a washing machine, room for a decent genset, watermaker, dinghy, outboard and the list goes on and on. Living on a boat that also needs to actually move is wildly different when you move from a boat that was designed for chartering to a boat that was designed for full time live-aboard cruising.

I would opt for the Amel even if that cost me more in refurbishing. But with other options having teak decks etc. I don't even believe that will be the case: all will have those costs or they will not be suited for the job.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Can you give some examples of what will fail? Even if it costs more, at least you can live aboard instead of camping. Look at tank capacities, size of galley, lack of outside teak, not too much space used for more berths. How about a washing machine, room for a decent genset, watermaker, dinghy, outboard and the list goes on and on. Living on a boat that also needs to actually move is wildly different when you move from a boat that was designed for chartering to a boat that was designed for full time live-aboard cruising.

I would opt for the Amel even if that cost me more in refurbishing. But with other options having teak decks etc. I don't even believe that will be the case: all will have those costs or they will not be suited for the job.

What can fail after 20 years? The same stuff that fails on other boats! Stuff wears out. My friends are replacing parts on their genset right now. Another mate has replaced his engine, genset, rigging, sails, electronics etc etc.

And they actually aren't that big inside for their 53ft compared to comparable yachts, given the engine room ,which is great takes up alot of space.

Look I'm not going to get into a pointless argument about it ,Amels are VERY GOOD boats, if the Op has the money to buy a good one, well definitely, go for it. What im saying is if you have 220k to spend to buy a boat that you want to go seriously cruising with then be prepared for a reasonable % of that 220k to go into a refit, thus imho I would buy a very good condition production boat and you will have enough left to fit it out the way you want.
As I said I will be cruising with two across the Indian ocean this year, im very confident my Catalina 470 will get there in a similar time as them, while experienceing a similar level of comfort with similar problems.

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[barnakiel]

To start with, the teak will fail on a 20 years old boat. Also if she is an Oyster.

So one more pro to consider an Amel. Or an alternative where the teak was redone somewhere last 2-3 years.

Depending on your use, but should you want to take the boat offshore, plenty anything may need a replacement. Charter boats get rolled over (to naive buyers, at times) when they are about 5 years old. Think of it.

I would only buy a 20 years old boat if I had at least an amt equal to the purchase amt left for upgrades and repairs. That is to say if your boat budget is X, spend not more than 0.5X on initial purchase. Unless you are buying a new boat from the boatyard with reputable warranty service.

b.

[Terra Nova]

Most 20-year old boats of that size are ready for a refit. And you can go through $100k really fast.

[robert sailor]

I tend to agree with Dockhead that it's hard to beat an Amel if you plan on crossing oceans. They are a bit like an ugly girlfriend, they cook better, they keep the house better and they are better in bed.....you just don't like taking them to a dance.

[chuck1]

Hi All,
Thanks for the great replys and spirited debates. I would have responded sooner but I took the day off to move out of our 6k sqft house into an 800 sqft trailer. So we are still in shock/relief over that. If anyone wants any tips on that process let me know. One big thing I learned late in life and this move brought home is don't buy new unless your okay with giving it away or making pennies on the dollar when you sell. Never again!

Back to the boat. The reason most production boats were off the list is because the majority (of at least the French ones) had the master in the bow and two cabins port and starboard in the rear with the linear galley parallel to the salon. We didn't like that arrangement. Another is the shallow exposed cockpit and two wheels. We plan on living on her and traveling far and wide. That large exposed stern freaks me out (but I love the swim platforms). Most have spade rudders and our preference is a protected rudder of some sort. They are fun to sail and we have chartered many. Some seem to not age well either (that could be a result of chartering though).

If there is heavy built production CC with a protected rudder and a safe and sheltered cockpit that can generate it's own power and water w/ sufficient tankage and decent galley that two can sail easily please suggest. I would love options. Thanks for all your input.

[Typhoon]

If there is heavy built production CC with a protected rudder and a safe and sheltered cockpit that can generate it's own power and water w/ sufficient tankage and decent galley that two can sail easily please suggest. I would love options. Thanks for all your input.[/QUOTE]


Sure there is , but they are expensive and more then likely semi custom if you are looking at a new boat .

Or you could just get a Bristol 45.5 or even a 56.6 (remove teak deck) . Of course everyones boat is the best , but that being said , with love our Bristol and If we ever got footitis , it would be just a bigger Bristol . Built like tanks beautiful lines , sails great , protected rudder , shallow draft centerboarder, encapsulated keel . Great galleys , then put all your systems on it and off you go .

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCC...4BzzTGJM3YJSTw

Regards John.

[LoudMusic]

Originally Posted by chuck1

If there is heavy built production CC with a protected rudder and a safe and sheltered cockpit that can generate it's own power and water w/ sufficient tankage and decent galley that two can sail easily please suggest. I would love options. Thanks for all your input.

A Hunter might get you close, but I suspect you would not like the materials used or build quality when considering it for a long term live aboard cruiser.

In addition to the three you mentioned in the title, my wife and I are also looking at Hallberg Rassy, Moody, Southerly, Contest, Passport, Tayana, Island Packet ... the usual suspects.

There are plenty of manufacturers and models of boats that absolutely fit my wants list. Honestly the problem I'm having now is finding a boat in reasonable condition for sale in a region I could start this life in. It's either beautiful boats far far away or total junkers nearby. Maybe I should look into boat relocation costs.

[neilsty]

I own an Oyster which was 10 years old when I bought it. I spent a lot of money updating all of the navigation electronics - by personal choice - not necessity. I also added a watermaker and new sails - again by choice. As to maintenance the boat is extremely well built with excellent access to all of the various systems and great documentation. So the plus is you can do most of the repair work yourself. The pumps, wiring, switches, hatch seals etc that seem to have issues over time are all pretty much standard and readily available. As to the teak deck - mine is glued down - only had issues where the edge of a locker hatch has been caught. Had a few minor leaks around fittings - but the headliners come off to provide easy access to tighten things up. Where not accessible captain tolleys sealer has worked. Also oyster have been able to get me parts where they are not readily available on line - and had great service from them. I had the option of buying a new Jeanneau probably bigger than my current boat for what I paid for the Oyster. I have no regrets on buying a well built boat that I know can handle way worse conditions than I ever want to be in.

[Tasso]

[QUOTE=chuck1;2366161]Hi All,
Thanks for the great replys and spirited debates. ...

Concur 100% We'll be going through this process next season and have been following closely. Our plan is to winter in the Bahamas on our coastal boat and discover our "must have list" and then upgrade.

Chuck - when you make your final decision please share with us here what your choice was and the reasoning you went through to make the decision.

I'm a bit of a Delos geek - but really feel that Amels are good value for the sailing goals you've set. I've had a walk-through of a Super Maramu and felt the layout inside and out to be more than adequate. To my eye, the berthing layout is more for comfort underway than convenience on the hook...

As for refits - I expect that that will be a process - rather than an event. Certainly was for our current ride. I suggest that you spend a season at least to get familiar with your new boat and its systems before you set out for anything too adventurous.

My best advice is survey your surveyor! Ours came highly recommended by testimonials but he missed all the big problems and his fee was basically a waste of money. Also if you're not handy - you will need to be before you leave.

Good luck!

[Telesail]

Not sure if it is even something you would consider but if you are looking for single wheel, protected rudder etc and you do not mind Aluminum then you could do a lot worse than an Ovni. Second hand ones come up from time to time and they are bullet proof. When you run into one (figuratively of course) they are always long distance cruisers living the dream.

The yard in Chateau D'Olonne is now doing good trade reconditioning old boats and you might find you could get the equivalent of a nearly new boat within your budget assuming your refit kitty is $50-75k.

Just a thought.......

[sailcrazy]

If you're looking around the $200k mark, want a heavy, well-built CC that's easy to live on (for 2), again let me suggest a used Taswell 43. We've had ours now for 19 years, lived on board full time for several years and then cruised approx 6-mos at a time thru Asia, the Medd, and now the Caribbean. There aren't alot of them around, but I don't think you'd be disappointed if you checked one out......matches all the points you mentioned-in spades!