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Old 08-08-2016, 05:00   #16
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

Presumably someone was holding the camera, so there must have been at least one more person on board. In that case, and in reasonably calm conditions, I see nothing especially dangerous in what they did.

We tend to forget that--at least, in a lot of cases--there is another person there, holding the camera.
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Old 08-08-2016, 05:16   #17
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

As to the folks in the video. One can't say definitively whether or not their actions were in poor form or not, because:
- You weren't there, in order to more accurately assess conditions. Such as sea state, etc.
- You have no idea of the skills, & capabilities of those involved.
As if the participants have the reflexes of a race car driver, & the conditioning & experiences of a US Navy SEAL, then they'll be much safer acting thusly than would someone in their 80's with poor sight, grip, & balance.
None of which can be assessed via video, or even live, necessarily.

Anything you do, around the water or not, is a judgement call, which should be yours to make. And to invite others to make it for you definitely comes with hazard. As at what point do such mandates become "excessive"? And what is "safe"?

Particularly when many of the so called safety rules or equipment, actually does little or nothing to boost safety, though it does give the illusion there of. Which results in things being less safe overall. As people start to think that they're safe, due to equipment X. And that mindset leads folks to depending on gear which may or may not help them.
Also, their foundational knowledge & judgement is also now much poorer than if they relied on their wits alone instead of leaning on their (supposedly) safe gear. Which leads many to getting into situations more dangerous than their depth of experience will let them resolve on their own.

The reverse is also true. People learning sports on anything else, in a fear based, risk averse culture, won't develop the judgement skills to be able to know when something is truly dangerous, vs. merely adrenaline inducing. And so won't be able to well react when there's truly an emergency.
Plus they are far, far more likely to call for help when the situation doesn't warrant it. Even to the point in calling for an offshore rescue when the situation is merely scary, vs. truly dangerous. And in so doing, they put a lot of peoples lives on the line, including their own. Needlessly.

For example, when it comes to safety gear & mandates. I can bend & permanently deform many of the approved/mandated lifeline safety hooks with one hand, while holding them in that hand. And in a way which is akin to loads they'll see under service. So then, are they safe? They're called "Safe Action", & are approved by every governing racing & sailing body. But...

And yes, the US is definitely crazy when it comes to "safety". Which does wear on me at times.
I say as much having written curriculum for Safety At Sea Seminars. And having tested much of the safety gear used in them, & on the market. Ditto on doing a Lot of work in various types of water survival programs.
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Old 08-08-2016, 05:49   #18
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

sailing without pfds? sailing without lifelines? lifelines not made to keep you in boat--only to show you the edge of the boat. yes they bend.
sailing was a lot more funner without the nanny bs. i started age 7, 1955.
my baby sister started age 6 MONTHS, as did the cousins whose dad owned the boat. whot, worry?? hell i had my feet in bow wake when i was 7, AFTER i did my job of sail raising and jib hauling. no one nagged us top don pfds. thank the smart heads prevailing in this.
yes ocean is a serious thing. right now, ours is enveloped in tropical storm javier. makes it even m ore respect-able.
so--in midst of a nice flat smoothly rolling ocean, what is the big deal??

you think their couch sailing behavior was bad, watch some of the baja haha videos. omg!!! no pfds
omg no safety netting
omg no yada yada yada..
funny how it is alll good. no one dies. no one falls overboard. no one goes to jail. damn . how the hell can that be. people actually having FUN on ocean. cannot allow that, as it goes against WHOSE alleged better judgement? as far as i can see, the viewer dissing needs to stop watching if has an issue with SOMEONE ELSE'S habits.
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Old 08-08-2016, 06:01   #19
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

zeehag, great post, LOL. And nope, we never had anyone go swimming from our 12m or IACC boat. Nor for that matter on our boats growing up... with zero lifelines or other safety gear. Pull up some videos of the racing in Fremantle with the 12m's. 30kts plus sometimes.
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Old 08-08-2016, 06:11   #20
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
sailing without pfds? sailing without lifelines? lifelines not made to keep you in boat--only to show you the edge of the boat. yes they bend.
sailing was a lot more funner without the nanny bs. i started age 7, 1955.
my baby sister started age 6 MONTHS, as did the cousins whose dad owned the boat. whot, worry?? hell i had my feet in bow wake when i was 7, AFTER i did my job of sail raising and jib hauling. no one nagged us top don pfds. thank the smart heads prevailing in this.
yes ocean is a serious thing. right now, ours is enveloped in tropical storm javier. makes it even m ore respect-able.
so--in midst of a nice flat smoothly rolling ocean, what is the big deal??

you think their couch sailing behavior was bad, watch some of the baja haha videos. omg!!! no pfds
omg no safety netting
omg no yada yada yada..
funny how it is alll good. no one dies. no one falls overboard. no one goes to jail. damn . how the hell can that be. people actually having FUN on ocean. cannot allow that, as it goes against WHOSE alleged better judgement? as far as i can see, the viewer dissing needs to stop watching if has an issue with SOMEONE ELSE'S habits.
Agreed.

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Old 08-08-2016, 06:15   #21
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
To be worried about what other people do is just plain weird IMHO.
lol. ironic.

'STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO ACT!'
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Old 08-08-2016, 06:26   #22
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

You watch YouTube and saw people on a sailboat sitting on the swim platform while underway and freaked out?

Yesterday I watched a person ride his mountain bike down the race of a dam and into the water. Another person jumped into the water from a bridge and immediately saw a great white shark.

Both people were wearing 'Go Pro' cameras. The more cameras 'Go Pro' sells more dangerous and interesting videos to see.

I probably bypassed the people sitting on their swim step as too boring to watch.

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Old 08-08-2016, 06:35   #23
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

What people show on YouTube is not reality.

Unless the video was shot with a hidden camera.

Think of all YouTube, Facebook an Twitter content as sort of art, publicity, media content NOT life.

That something is written in a book, does not mean it is true.

That something is on YouTube does not mean it has happened.

You get paid for content and so people will post anything that they believe will generate clicks.

Makes me think of one "sailing" video blog where the "sailors" are always young, sexy and somewhat naked.

Then again, if some people are allowed to kill themselves working in cubicles, why should other people not be free to kill themselves by slipping off the transom???

Cheers,
b.
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Old 08-08-2016, 06:48   #24
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
------
For example, when it comes to safety gear & mandates. I can bend & permanently deform many of the approved/mandated lifeline safety hooks with one hand, while holding them in that hand. And in a way which is akin to loads they'll see under service. -----
UNCIVILIZED -
I don't doubt you at all, but I can't figure out how to hold it so as to even attempt it. Got a picture?
Thanks
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Old 08-08-2016, 06:52   #25
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
-----
Both people were wearing 'Go Pro' cameras. The more cameras 'Go Pro' sells more dangerous and interesting videos to see. -----
lol. Most popular last words -
"Hey guys! Watch this!"
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Old 08-08-2016, 06:54   #26
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

Wow. Looks like I really struck a nerve. No I didn't "freak out" and I wasn't out to safe shame them, I made no mention of their identity and was wondering where persons risk assessment stood.

For those wondering my nationality? Kiwi naturalized in US. In any case, thanks.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:10   #27
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Honestly, how do any of you have any enjoyment in your apparently dull worrisome lives. There's risk in everything, driving a car, crossing the street, eating too much, walking down stairs, running with scissors, and sailing etc.

I'm surprised you're not overcome by worry about the lithium battery in your computer or cell phone blowing up in your face. Jeez.... Start enjoying life. Quit worrying, so much.....we'll all be dead eventually.

To be worried about what other people do is just plain weird IMHO.
I'm a bit surprised that you are so worried about what other people worry about.

As far as being dead eventually, I would rather put it off as long as I can. There's a lot of fun things I haven't done yet.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:36   #28
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

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In the berth next to me at a marina, there was a Danish couple and whenever the wife left the cockpit to clean the deck or whatever, she wore her lifejacket. At first I thought she simply hadn't taken it off after returning to the marina, but then I kept seeing her wearing it on other days when they had not left.

Now that is cautious.... or perhaps just scared of water.
What follows is in a friendly tone of voice, and not meant to be argumentative. I read your comment and found it interesting, and it caused a few thoughts.

I think the good thing is that she is on a boat and apparently enjoys her time on it. I have met people who would never get on a small boat or would not live on one etc.

She could be afraid of drowning, but still like living or sailing on a boat. That is not uncommon.

Perhaps she does not know how to swim or swim well. I have always enjoyed swimming (up to a mile one time in open water) and yet some adults never learned to swim.

Since you mention she is in a berth in a marina, that leads me to suspect another possibility: she may have a medical condition that causes her to faint or have seizures (epilepsy). I have seen epileptic seizures strike others who outwardly appear very fit (men and women). Some people suffer small strokes too.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:37   #29
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

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I'm a bit surprised that you are so worried about what other people worry about.
i'm glad you noticed that too. Some folks have some pretty hilarious blindspots in their self awareness.

Anyways, carry on!! I think gossiping about other people's choices is like a good 50% of the fun here.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:11   #30
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Re: Am I overly cautious around water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
What follows is in a friendly tone of voice, and not meant to be argumentative. I read your comment and found it interesting, and it caused a few thoughts.

I think the good thing is that she is on a boat and apparently enjoys her time on it. I have met people who would never get on a small boat or would not live on one etc.

She could be afraid of drowning, but still like living or sailing on a boat. That is not uncommon.

Perhaps she does not know how to swim or swim well. I have always enjoyed swimming (up to a mile one time in open water) and yet some adults never learned to swim.

Since you mention she is in a berth in a marina, that leads me to suspect another possibility: she may have a medical condition that causes her to faint or have seizures (epilepsy). I have seen epileptic seizures strike others who outwardly appear very fit (men and women). Some people suffer small strokes too.
I agree, it could be worse for the husband. She could simply refuse to join the husband onboard. Although interestingly, they went back home and then a month later the husband returned alone and then left the marina, never to return.
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