|
|
21-04-2016, 06:30
|
#16
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Great Lakes
Boat: Various Cruising Dinghies
Posts: 227
|
Re: Almost run over.
It might be a bit of a stretch referring to Yacht crews as professional mariners. Some are, a lot aren't.
Of course, the overtaking Yacht should have given you more room, but allowing yourself only a 50 foot CPA when you were aware a risk of collision existed might not have been your most prudent course of action.
A couple clicks to starboard on your autopilot a few miles out probably wouldn't have ruined your day.
Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 06:45
|
#17
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Warwick RI
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 1,873
|
Re: Almost run over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungvar
It might be a bit of a stretch referring to Yacht crews as professional mariners. Some are, a lot aren't.
Of course, the overtaking Yacht should have given you more room, but allowing yourself only a 50 foot CPA when you were aware a risk of collision existed might not have been your most prudent course of action.
A couple clicks to starboard on your autopilot a few miles out probably wouldn't have ruined your day.
Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
|
Cut him a break. I am sure the closure rate was much faster then expected and he stated that he only noticed them from 1/2 mile out. Not alot of time to react or be able to accurately see their course until things got tight.
Good job CPT BILL avoiding the collision. I would have been tempted to shoot a flare over their bow and continually afterwards until I got their attention.
__________________
-Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
-Molon Labe
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 07:01
|
#18
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Great Lakes
Boat: Various Cruising Dinghies
Posts: 227
|
Re: Almost run over.
I agree, the motor yacht was the primary aggressor here, but I think if you review Rule 8 (a),(d) and especially 17 (a) ii and 17 (b).
17(a)ii and 17 (b) exists specifically for this reason, if you think some one is going to run into you, you don't continue to stand on.
If you are going to take a strong position on a situation or incident based on the collision regulations, you have to take all the rules into account, not just the ones the other guy wasn't following.
Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 07:13
|
#19
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Caribbean
Boat: 38/41 Fountains pajot
Posts: 3,060
|
Re: Almost run over.
Yeah its only an issue if your disabled or in distress, no excuse for Andiamo to not have a lookout
Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 08:52
|
#20
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Now based on Florida's West coast
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,574
|
Re: Almost run over.
Bill,
We never assume competence on any vessel sailing within close proximity to our boat . . . yes, that includes sailboats. However, it seems that all mega-pleasure yachts assume they have the right of way and there is no guarantee of competence by the captain or crew. Your story is a good example of this problem. However, the worse, by far, in my opinion, are the commercial shrimpers in the Gulf of Mexico whether running free or dragging their nets. It has been our experience that they will never alter course nor respond to any radio calls. I suggest you file a written report, wherever it is possible, with the vessel's name, time, and details. I was told by Coast Guard Miami when we were nearly hit at anchor by a commercial tour boat that any written complaints are kept in a captain's personal file and the grievous ones will be prosecuted. Thanks for sharing your story. This is far more common than most people realize. Good luck and safe sailing.
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 14:16
|
#21
|
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,524
|
Re: Almost run over.
Bill, et al,
A very similar event occurred last year, but the sailboat wasn't fast enough: the collision killed the man's wife/gf, and sunk the boat he'd built.
It seems that in these areas where people have skippered charters, some of the skippers are extremely negligent, and sailing boat sailors have to decide and move very quickly because the power boats are closing so fast with them.
It's a damned scary situation.
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 14:31
|
#22
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Alameda
Boat: Bluewater 40, Cal 20, Bayliner Avanti
Posts: 274
|
Re: Almost run over.
I found point my searchlight directly to bridge, sound my horn and call on by vhf sometimes work.. mostly time I need to move out and discuss later.. I got a couple fight over the fact some captain are very sensible about the fact I pointed their boat with my high output spot light over the bridge but well.. what you don't learn at home, you learn at the street in the worst way...
__________________
En medio de la noche, sigo siendo luz...
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 15:04
|
#23
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,437
|
Re: Almost run over.
I am in the launcher club too.
b.
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 15:17
|
#24
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jax, FL
Boat: 48' steel cutter
Posts: 291
|
Re: Almost run over.
I think Andiamo means "Let's Go!" in Italian. They sure were going.
I keep a million candlepower light handy to the cockpit for occasions like that. If they don't respond on Channel 16 or to horn signals, light up their bridge. Nothing gets their attention like a million CP.
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 15:22
|
#25
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: cornwall uk
Posts: 574
|
Re: Almost run over.
Ok , gotta put a word in ! But I know some will not like it !
There is no excuse for the incident in post#1
But
This topic seems to be turning into....' Only power boats make mistakes' and ' I have a sail boat so I am the only one who knows what they are doing on the water'
We all have responsibilities under colregs, the funny thing is that when the ' yachties' anchored outside of the harbour where I live jump in their dinghy or turn the 'donkey on' to help propulsion or steerage with the white flappy things still hoisted -they forget they are a power boat ! and seem to think colregs by passing port to port in a channel doesn't apply or the speed limit - no wake zone is some how never going to apply to them as its only large luxury motor vessels or speed boats that cause problems
It amazes me that most charter guests that I do checkouts for are well prep'd and know at least their limitations, I would say the ( retired) adventurer cruising couples and live boards are often the most arrogant and uneducated when it comes to colregs and etiquette on the water ( in my experience)
But this is a generalisation and no better than other posters opinions so I will deserve the back lash
Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 15:22
|
#26
|
Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,184
|
Re: Almost run over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis McGee
I think Andiamo means "Let's Go!" in Italian. They sure were going.
I keep a million candlepower light handy to the cockpit for occasions like that. If they don't respond on Channel 16 or to horn signals, light up their bridge. Nothing gets their attention like a million CP.
|
Not so effective in daylight hours as this situation was.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 15:25
|
#27
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: cornwall uk
Posts: 574
|
Re: Almost run over.
And don't get my onto, day shape use for motor sailing !
Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!
|
|
|
21-04-2016, 15:31
|
#28
|
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,865
|
Re: Almost run over.
I don't want to minimize how terrible the superyacht bridge was, but you also, with respect, failed in collision avoidance.
You should not have still been standing on 5 cables off. As the stand on vessel, you're allowed to take action as soon as it is apparent he was not taking action, and you were obligated to as soon as his action alone couldn't resolve the situation.
In open water, a mile is probably a reasonable safe CPA under most circumstances, and you should not have let him get within a mile of you.
Again, I'm not justifying the incredible negligence of the superyacht guys. But the incident need not have been so dramatic. And risky. If there had been a collision, you would have gotten part of the blame.
Edit: When I wrote that, I had not read Ungvar's post. I agree with him 100%.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
|
|
|
22-04-2016, 05:49
|
#29
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,014
|
Re: Almost run over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofsmit
This topic seems to be turning into....' Only power boats make mistakes' and ' I have a sail boat so I am the only one who knows what they are doing on the water'...
|
Huh!?! I didn't get that--AT ALL--from any of the posts!
|
|
|
22-04-2016, 06:54
|
#30
|
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,865
|
Re: Almost run over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garrobito
I found point my searchlight directly to bridge, sound my horn and call on by vhf sometimes work.. mostly time I need to move out and discuss later.. I got a couple fight over the fact some captain are very sensible about the fact I pointed their boat with my high output spot light over the bridge but well.. what you don't learn at home, you learn at the street in the worst way...
|
Why would you bother doing all that?
Once you have a reasonable belief that he is not maneuvering -- and by 3 or 4 miles out, if you still have a collision course, then that belief is reasonable -- then just maneuver yourself to maintain CPA of at least a mile. So you don't let him get within a mile of you.
That is simple and safe. And complies with the COLREGS.
If you shine a light on his bridge or whatever -- what do you expect to happen? A sudden maneuver from him? If you're close enough to shine a light on him, you are already far too close -- you should have maneuvered long before getting to that stage.
Remember that BOTH vessels have an equal responsibility to avoid a collision. Who is stand-on and who is give-way is NOT an allocation of responsibility (and so is unlike "right of way" on land). It is just the order of maneuvering. If he doesn't take his turn in maneuvering while you "hold still", then you are obligated to take yours, and you are obligated to do it early enough to maintain a safe CPA.
Another rule which is really helpful for this situation -- Never Stand On Into Danger.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|
|
|
|