Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-04-2016, 07:30   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Great Lakes
Boat: Mid size sloop rigged
Posts: 182
Re: Almost run over.

It might be a bit of a stretch referring to Yacht crews as professional mariners. Some are, a lot aren't.

Of course, the overtaking Yacht should have given you more room, but allowing yourself only a 50 foot CPA when you were aware a risk of collision existed might not have been your most prudent course of action.

A couple clicks to starboard on your autopilot a few miles out probably wouldn't have ruined your day.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
Ungvar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 07:45   #17
Registered User
 
ontherocks83's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Checkmate Strobe 201
Posts: 1,593
Re: Almost run over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungvar View Post
It might be a bit of a stretch referring to Yacht crews as professional mariners. Some are, a lot aren't.

Of course, the overtaking Yacht should have given you more room, but allowing yourself only a 50 foot CPA when you were aware a risk of collision existed might not have been your most prudent course of action.

A couple clicks to starboard on your autopilot a few miles out probably wouldn't have ruined your day.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Cut him a break. I am sure the closure rate was much faster then expected and he stated that he only noticed them from 1/2 mile out. Not alot of time to react or be able to accurately see their course until things got tight.

Good job CPT BILL avoiding the collision. I would have been tempted to shoot a flare over their bow and continually afterwards until I got their attention.
__________________

__________________
-Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
-Molon Labe
ontherocks83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 08:01   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Great Lakes
Boat: Mid size sloop rigged
Posts: 182
Re: Almost run over.

I agree, the motor yacht was the primary aggressor here, but I think if you review Rule 8 (a),(d) and especially 17 (a) ii and 17 (b).

17(a)ii and 17 (b) exists specifically for this reason, if you think some one is going to run into you, you don't continue to stand on.

If you are going to take a strong position on a situation or incident based on the collision regulations, you have to take all the rules into account, not just the ones the other guy wasn't following.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Ungvar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 08:13   #19
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,828
Images: 4
Re: Almost run over.

Yeah its only an issue if your disabled or in distress, no excuse for Andiamo to not have a lookout

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 09:52   #20
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Almost run over.

Bill,
We never assume competence on any vessel sailing within close proximity to our boat . . . yes, that includes sailboats. However, it seems that all mega-pleasure yachts assume they have the right of way and there is no guarantee of competence by the captain or crew. Your story is a good example of this problem. However, the worse, by far, in my opinion, are the commercial shrimpers in the Gulf of Mexico whether running free or dragging their nets. It has been our experience that they will never alter course nor respond to any radio calls. I suggest you file a written report, wherever it is possible, with the vessel's name, time, and details. I was told by Coast Guard Miami when we were nearly hit at anchor by a commercial tour boat that any written complaints are kept in a captain's personal file and the grievous ones will be prosecuted. Thanks for sharing your story. This is far more common than most people realize. Good luck and safe sailing.
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 15:16   #21
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,719
Re: Almost run over.

Bill, et al,

A very similar event occurred last year, but the sailboat wasn't fast enough: the collision killed the man's wife/gf, and sunk the boat he'd built.

It seems that in these areas where people have skippered charters, some of the skippers are extremely negligent, and sailing boat sailors have to decide and move very quickly because the power boats are closing so fast with them.

It's a damned scary situation.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 15:31   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Alameda
Boat: Bluewater 40, Cal 20, Bayliner Avanti
Posts: 275
Re: Almost run over.

I found point my searchlight directly to bridge, sound my horn and call on by vhf sometimes work.. mostly time I need to move out and discuss later.. I got a couple fight over the fact some captain are very sensible about the fact I pointed their boat with my high output spot light over the bridge but well.. what you don't learn at home, you learn at the street in the worst way...
__________________
En medio de la noche, sigo siendo luz...
garrobito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 16:04   #23
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Almost run over.

I am in the launcher club too.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 16:17   #24
Registered User
 
Travis McGee's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jax, FL
Boat: 48' steel cutter
Posts: 291
Re: Almost run over.

I think Andiamo means "Let's Go!" in Italian. They sure were going.

I keep a million candlepower light handy to the cockpit for occasions like that. If they don't respond on Channel 16 or to horn signals, light up their bridge. Nothing gets their attention like a million CP.
__________________
Travis McGee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 16:22   #25
Registered User
 
Hoofsmit's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: cornwall uk
Posts: 569
Re: Almost run over.

Ok , gotta put a word in ! But I know some will not like it !
There is no excuse for the incident in post#1
But
This topic seems to be turning into....' Only power boats make mistakes' and ' I have a sail boat so I am the only one who knows what they are doing on the water'
We all have responsibilities under colregs, the funny thing is that when the ' yachties' anchored outside of the harbour where I live jump in their dinghy or turn the 'donkey on' to help propulsion or steerage with the white flappy things still hoisted -they forget they are a power boat ! and seem to think colregs by passing port to port in a channel doesn't apply or the speed limit - no wake zone is some how never going to apply to them as its only large luxury motor vessels or speed boats that cause problems
It amazes me that most charter guests that I do checkouts for are well prep'd and know at least their limitations, I would say the ( retired) adventurer cruising couples and live boards are often the most arrogant and uneducated when it comes to colregs and etiquette on the water ( in my experience)
But this is a generalisation and no better than other posters opinions so I will deserve the back lash




Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!
__________________
Hoofsmit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 16:22   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,471
Re: Almost run over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis McGee View Post
I think Andiamo means "Let's Go!" in Italian. They sure were going.

I keep a million candlepower light handy to the cockpit for occasions like that. If they don't respond on Channel 16 or to horn signals, light up their bridge. Nothing gets their attention like a million CP.
Not so effective in daylight hours as this situation was.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 16:25   #27
Registered User
 
Hoofsmit's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: cornwall uk
Posts: 569
Re: Almost run over.

And don't get my onto, day shape use for motor sailing !


Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!
__________________
Hoofsmit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2016, 16:31   #28
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,764
Re: Almost run over.

I don't want to minimize how terrible the superyacht bridge was, but you also, with respect, failed in collision avoidance.

You should not have still been standing on 5 cables off. As the stand on vessel, you're allowed to take action as soon as it is apparent he was not taking action, and you were obligated to as soon as his action alone couldn't resolve the situation.

In open water, a mile is probably a reasonable safe CPA under most circumstances, and you should not have let him get within a mile of you.


Again, I'm not justifying the incredible negligence of the superyacht guys. But the incident need not have been so dramatic. And risky. If there had been a collision, you would have gotten part of the blame.


Edit: When I wrote that, I had not read Ungvar's post. I agree with him 100%.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2016, 06:49   #29
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,954
Images: 6
Re: Almost run over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofsmit View Post
This topic seems to be turning into....' Only power boats make mistakes' and ' I have a sail boat so I am the only one who knows what they are doing on the water'...
Huh!?! I didn't get that--AT ALL--from any of the posts!
__________________
denverd0n is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2016, 07:54   #30
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,764
Re: Almost run over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garrobito View Post
I found point my searchlight directly to bridge, sound my horn and call on by vhf sometimes work.. mostly time I need to move out and discuss later.. I got a couple fight over the fact some captain are very sensible about the fact I pointed their boat with my high output spot light over the bridge but well.. what you don't learn at home, you learn at the street in the worst way...
Why would you bother doing all that?

Once you have a reasonable belief that he is not maneuvering -- and by 3 or 4 miles out, if you still have a collision course, then that belief is reasonable -- then just maneuver yourself to maintain CPA of at least a mile. So you don't let him get within a mile of you.

That is simple and safe. And complies with the COLREGS.


If you shine a light on his bridge or whatever -- what do you expect to happen? A sudden maneuver from him? If you're close enough to shine a light on him, you are already far too close -- you should have maneuvered long before getting to that stage.


Remember that BOTH vessels have an equal responsibility to avoid a collision. Who is stand-on and who is give-way is NOT an allocation of responsibility (and so is unlike "right of way" on land). It is just the order of maneuvering. If he doesn't take his turn in maneuvering while you "hold still", then you are obligated to take yours, and you are obligated to do it early enough to maintain a safe CPA.


Another rule which is really helpful for this situation -- Never Stand On Into Danger.
__________________

__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Isotherm Freezer - Run, Stop, Run, Stop... Cruisin Cat Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 8 24-04-2014 19:06
Boot Camp ... No, I Mean Boat Camp - is Almost Over kim r Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 05-10-2013 10:59
Almost Run Down by a Shrimper . . . cantxsailor General Sailing Forum 38 12-09-2010 11:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.