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Old 14-05-2019, 00:23   #46
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All About Anchors

but why would Dashew know more about anchoring than experienced people on this forum.
Is he some sort of anchoring expert that does not exist on these forums?
You would think that after all the time this forum existed, experienced forum users would know at least as much or more!
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Old 14-05-2019, 00:51   #47
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Re: All About Anchors

Try Panope and his video's on anchors and anchoring,
He would be one of the more expertise and knowledgeable people on the forums for anchors,
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Old 14-05-2019, 00:59   #48
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Re: All About Anchors

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Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Try Panope and his video's on anchors and anchoring,
He would be one of the more expertise and knowledgeable people on the forums for anchors,
I'll second that.
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Old 14-05-2019, 01:59   #49
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Re: All About Anchors

Just an observation and a question. Majority opinion and experience expressed here favors an all chain main rode, or a mostly chain rode with a rope tail which seldom sees use. No problem with this excerpt that if you carry enough chain to accommodate the deepest set you think you might encounter, you will be carrying much more chain than you need most of the time. The penalty for that is more weight in the bow where it affects pitching moment - and depending on design, perhaps a lot.
One way to be flexible would be to carry enough chain forward to satisfy most situations and then to carry additional lengths of manageable size, say 10 fathoms, elsewhere where the weight is less of a problem, such as the bilge, standing by for use in those deeper than normal situations. The only problem with that, is the lack of good connector solutions, at least for grade 40 chain. The two viable solutions I'm aware of:
1. Clevis links. These are stronger than grade 40 chain of similar size. On my windless (Lofrans Tigress horizontal), the link passes through just fine in running out, but I have to use the windless handle to manually pass the section with the clevis link through the gypsy coming in so as not to jam. That's my windless, others may pass a clevis link just fine both ways or perhaps not at all.
2. Use the "C link" connectors which match the existing links and come as sister halves locked together by peening connecting studs over. These are fine for BBB and proof coil as is but do not equal the strength of high test chain, and thus would significantly reduce the strength of a grade 40 rode if used alone, but adding a dyneema soft shackle to the arrangement restores the strength while still maintaining a pretty good protection against chafe. The c-link plus soft shackle passes through my windless both ways and I suspect this is true for many windless arrangements.

Are there any other suggestions or viable chain connectors?
.
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Old 14-05-2019, 02:37   #50
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Re: All About Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuss View Post
but why would Dashew know more about anchoring than experienced people on this forum.
Is he some sort of anchoring expert that does not exist on these forums?
You would think that after all the time this forum existed, experienced forum users would know at least as much or more!

Because he has invested massive amounts of time and brainpower into thinking through anchoring in difficult conditions, and then actually did it for years and years on end in extreme latitudes. We do have a handful of people on here with experience on something like that level -- Snowy Petrel, Evans Starzinger -- but just a bare handful. I am not among these, and I have a lot of time for Dashew's opinions. YMMV.
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Old 20-08-2019, 06:35   #51
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Re: All About Anchors

Last year I completely reconstructed my bow and decided to change an anchor as well. Before that I had 20kg Delta on my Oceanis 50, which seemed to be little undersized but generally did it’s job for cruising in Ionnian. After huge reading of everything what I could find in forums and “independent” reviews, decided to get 30kg Spade. 80m 10mm chain. Sorry to admit but after having it two seasons I might change it to anything else. Mud - boat slowly travels across the all bays. Resetting, always at least 20m of dragging before it digs in. Hard packed sand - its a brick travelling tens of meters on its side. I’ve had an opprtunities to see it with my own eyes in cristal Med waters when I try to anchor in 3m depth just in a front of beach. When mooring stern to marinas, 50% of cases I just cannot get a good fix, even with scopes 6 and more. Something is terribly wrong. Probably with me as anchor still has much better reputation.
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Old 20-08-2019, 06:41   #52
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Re: All About Anchors

Is this a aluminum or steel anchor?
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Old 20-08-2019, 07:27   #53
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Re: All About Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by squarerigger View Post
Just an observation and a question. Majority opinion and experience expressed here favors an all chain main rode, or a mostly chain rode with a rope tail which seldom sees use. No problem with this excerpt that if you carry enough chain to accommodate the deepest set you think you might encounter, you will be carrying much more chain than you need most of the time. The penalty for that is more weight in the bow where it affects pitching moment - and depending on design, perhaps a lot.
One way to be flexible would be to carry enough chain forward to satisfy most situations and then to carry additional lengths of manageable size, say 10 fathoms, elsewhere where the weight is less of a problem, such as the bilge, standing by for use in those deeper than normal situations. The only problem with that, is the lack of good connector solutions, at least for grade 40 chain. The two viable solutions I'm aware of:
1. Clevis links. These are stronger than grade 40 chain of similar size. On my windless (Lofrans Tigress horizontal), the link passes through just fine in running out, but I have to use the windless handle to manually pass the section with the clevis link through the gypsy coming in so as not to jam. That's my windless, others may pass a clevis link just fine both ways or perhaps not at all.
2. Use the "C link" connectors which match the existing links and come as sister halves locked together by peening connecting studs over. These are fine for BBB and proof coil as is but do not equal the strength of high test chain, and thus would significantly reduce the strength of a grade 40 rode if used alone, but adding a dyneema soft shackle to the arrangement restores the strength while still maintaining a pretty good protection against chafe. The c-link plus soft shackle passes through my windless both ways and I suspect this is true for many windless arrangements.

Are there any other suggestions or viable chain connectors?
.
Squarerigger, your premise is correct regarding the added weight implications of long chain rode, but this is the Cruisers' Forum where the v berth typically becomes a storage locker chock full of extraneous supplies, large quantities of provisions, mechanical spares, redundant anchors, etc. that the extra weight of the "safety length" of chain rode tends to be of relatively modest effect. Main focus should be placed on sizing the chain for the expected loads. Using higher grades of chain can offer some weight saving however. For example, 300 feet of 3/8 BBB weighs 468 lbs vs. 300 feet of 5/16 G4 HT which weighs 310 lbs and has higher strength. Thus if taking 160 lbs off the bow is considered important, using higher grade chain definitely has its advantages.

I can't even imagine trying to add on extra chain that was stored in the bilge so as to set anchor, far too much hassle and then there is the weak link issue all for just a small amount of added weight on the bow.

Ground tackle is not where most cruisers are inclined to cut weight, they usually size up on their anchor and size long on their rode, and typically carry redundant anchors and rode. Albeit, they may give consideration to ditching the third or fourth anchor system [i.e., the original, comparatively undersized and older technology equipment] before shortening the rode on their primary ground tackle.

Now performance boaters, heck they cut off half the handle of their toothbrushes to cut down on weight and and go for things like carbon masts. And chubby crew are positioned as rail meat.

One can always just shift a couple of kegs of beer and cases of wine / liquor from the V berth to stow in a mid-ship berth to keep the weight from the bow, but then one would need to also remove stuff from the lazarette to keep fore and aft balance.
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Old 20-08-2019, 08:34   #54
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Re: All About Anchors

Knowing the bottom you are anchoring in, is a really important part of the equation. Some anchors are better in some bottoms than others.

It's like asking what is the best shoe to be wearing. Well, where are you going to be walking?
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Old 20-08-2019, 11:54   #55
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Re: All About Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by motion30 View Post
Is this a aluminum or steel anchor?
It is galvanized steel.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:01   #56
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Re: All About Anchors

Guys, I take back my critical words about Spade. I got it assembled from a supplier. Imagine, it was assembled upside down, with a yellow part facing downwards. What a great supplier... And it took a year of suspicious watching on it to figure it out! Problem solved. One of funniest experiences in my sailing career.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:28   #57
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Re: All About Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberts_s View Post
Guys, I take back my critical words about Spade. I got it assembled from a supplier. Imagine, it was assembled upside down, with a yellow part facing downwards. What a great supplier... And it took a year of suspicious watching on it to figure it out! Problem solved. One of funniest experiences in my sailing career.
Only a year to figure it out? That's pretty funny. I just went back and read your post about how poorly the Spade worked for you. Sorry I didn't see it when you first posted it. Been using Spade anchors for about 12 years. They excellent all round anchors.
If it makes you feel any better, I have heard of one other person who assembled theirs backward too.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:04   #58
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Re: All About Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberts_s View Post
Guys, I take back my critical words about Spade. I got it assembled from a supplier. Imagine, it was assembled upside down, with a yellow part facing downwards. What a great supplier... And it took a year of suspicious watching on it to figure it out! Problem solved. One of funniest experiences in my sailing career.
Guess the moral of the story is 2 fold

a) if you want a job doing well do it yourself
b) RTFM - read the flaming manual

Thanks for the chuckle though. Guess we've all been there at some point.
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Old 10-10-2019, 13:12   #59
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Re: All About Anchors

For an opinion which is contrary to the current trend:

Originally I had a big HT Danforth, on a nylon rode. It came with the boat. It was good enough for the PNW where anchoring is pretty easy.

When I went cruising I bought a beautiful stainless steel 45lb CQR clone and 275' 5/16 HT chain. It looked good on the bow but didn't hold AT ALL.

We changed to a 44lb Bruce. That seemed like the right size (in the days before bigger is better and biggest is best became the fad). This anchor has held without dragging or problems setting in a variety of bottoms and in all weather conditions since 1997, when we bought it.

Well, it dragged once, slowly pulling down wind, in the Bay of Islands in very soft mud in 50+knots of wind, but held after re-setting.

It dragged another time when a 30lb rock got jammed between the stock and the body of the anchor, reducing the exposed area to about 5sq inches.

Otherwise this anchor and all chain combination has been prefect for us for 22 years, and around the world, so I am satisfied that a new style or hugely oversized anchor is not necessary.

We carry our chain aft, in a locker near the mast (this is a characteristic of our boat, not easy for most boats to do) so all chain does not affect our bow trim.

We carry a 66lb Bruce below decks which we have used twice, not because the 44 was not holding but because we feared that the conditions would dramatically worsen, which they did not. In both cases we could have stayed with the 44, but I'll admit I did sleep better.

We also carry a Fortress 27lb as a spare, which we have rarely used. We selected this anchor because it was light and easy to store.

We have a 22lb fortress as a stern anchor, which we rarely use,

We have a 5lb Bruce dingy anchor, it's cute.

Our spare rode is 300' of 5/8 nylon with a short chain.

When we go racing the two big Bruce anchors and the chain are left ashore and we use the fortress and the rope, if needed.

I am not of the view that we need an 80lb anchor on the bow for normal use.

I am not of the opinion that if a little bit is good, more is better.

I am not a follower who decides that since everyone else is doing it, and since it costs twice as much, a huge anchor is what I need.

I don't need hopeless overkill in order to sleep well, just the right anchor for the job, which for our 43ft yacht, is a 44lb Bruce on all chain.

This photo is in the "protected" anchorage of Struisbaai, 4 nm from Cape Agulhas in a blistering 50kt NW (offshore) wind. Next stop if we dragged is Antarctica. My 44lb Bruce was holding but I decided to change to the 66lb.
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