Air attack on pirates today...

[capngeo]

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[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by cat man do

You do realise that the western world and big money pretty much control the weapons and the media don't you?
How to you expect a little third world country to take them on?

Your suggestions?

See what I mean?...Category 2

[captainKJ]

getting closer to post 35 Don,,,,,,

buy the way,,,what country took all the fishing away from the Somali people???


England wanted to send a whole bunch of boats to Somali to teach them how to fish and make a living as fisherman. It was then pointed out that commercial fishing vessels wiped out the fishing for the Somali people several years ago...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by captainKJ

getting closer to post 35 Don,,,,,,

buy the way,,,what country took all the fishing away from the Somali people???


England wanted to send a whole bunch of boats to Somali to teach them how to fish and make a living as fisherman. It was then pointed out that commercial fishing vessels wiped out the fishing for the Somali people several years ago...

From what I've read the Somali's like to point the finger at the Italians, and other mediterranean nations. But the Italian mob, particularly the Camorra, are often accused by the Somali's of dumping illegal toxic waste, including nuclear waste, along the Somali shoreline. They say their country has become a dumping ground for all the worst waste from the Med, and apparently they have some dramatically increased cancer rates to show for it. But maybe they just have a beef with the Italians left over from pre-war days, who knows? Hard to ascertain the truth.

[David M]

Almost nobody needs to die to stop the pirates. Just keep destroying their boats at the docks when there are few to no people aboard those boats.

It is up to the Somalis if they want to kill hostages. But if you make the Somalis think that threatening to kill hostages will make a difference, then they will kill hostages in order to save their boats.

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by minaret

From what I've read the Somali's like to point the finger at the Italians, and other mediterranean nations. But the Italian mob, particularly the Camorra, are often accused by the Somali's of dumping illegal toxic waste, including nuclear waste, along the Somali shoreline. They say their country has become a dumping ground for all the worst waste from the Med, and apparently they have some dramatically increased cancer rates to show for it. But maybe they just have a beef with the Italians left over from pre-war days, who knows? Hard to ascertain the truth.

My understanding is that in recent years there were studies done on water quality and even heavy metal samples conducted along the coast and these supported the claim that heavily toxic and even radioactive waste had been dumped for years in Somali waters in addition to many nations, notoriously China, over fishing their waters.

But as I cant remember the reports I read or cite sources it is just more heresy...

...but I guess I would be one of those "tree hugger" types that believe that social problems are rarely simple or exist without significant cultural and historical context...

[JayCall]

I won't express an opinion on any ultimate soluution to the piracy issue, but it seems that there at least some avenues to pursue by European countries that could have an impact. As FoolishSsailor noted, there have been reports for years that there has been waste dumping, both onshore and offshore, in Somalia for years. I simple Google search turns up thousands of references to reports of the dumping including on-site testing by various UN and NGO organizations. Admittedly, many of these, as environmental NGOs may have a stake or a somewhat biased point of view, but there enough out there to prompt action by the EU.

The gist of most reports is that the source of much of the dumping is EU countries. There were more than a few reports tying local warlords into the issue by taking guns/money to allow onshore dumping. Can the EU not do some investigation and policing to at least cut down on whatever dumping is originating in the EU. According to one article, EU laws place the responisibility for disposal with each country and that would include cleanup for illegal dumping.

Some action by the EU would at least be a start and could contribute to changing the position of the parties to a less exploitee/exploiter situation.

This does not excuse piracy or the killing of hostages, but, IMHO, a more comprehensive set of actions could at least begin a move in a better direction.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Bloodhound

If Somali piracy is not an organised criminal enterprise, what the hell would you call it? Is it organised? Is it criminal? Is it an enterprise? Yes to all three. So what on earth are you going on about Cat Man Do?

Look at it the other way using numerous actions that let's say, "The Americans" have been responsible for.
Lets take just one example and use your wording,
Civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan 2001 to present

What the hell would you call it? Is it organised?

The US war machine is certainly very well organised

Is it criminal?

The killing of innocent civilians is criminal in "most" peoples eyes

Is it an enterprise?

The businesses associated with the war machine / effort do make mega profits, so yes.

Yes to all three.

It does look that way wouldn't you agree?

Originally Posted by Bloodhound

I don't give a damn what your hypothetical Somali press might call the gunship attack

Says it all really

[FrankZ]

As it appears there is really nothing else to add to this topic this thread has been closed.