Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-10-2005, 12:53   #1
Registered User
 
Yachts66's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Jungle, on an Island near the beach
Boat: Roberts 45 Mariah's Child
Posts: 643
Images: 15
Question A Yacht Broker Rant! What would you do?

Ok, my surreal boat buying experience just took a new twist and I'd like to solicit opinions from this group.

There is a boat in the Caribbean that looks very good on paper and in pictures. My now dubious broker has been in contact with the owner’s broker and they are telling what a "deal" this boat is. Ok, looks good, pics are great, the boat appears sweet, and I’m seriously interested. Towards the end of our discussions I'm told that there is another interested buyer, this one from Europe. He's going to go see it (don't know when) but he is interested and after all this is a first come first served affair, right? So I better boogey down there and grab it while I can.

Ok, maybe they have another guy, maybe they don't, so I book my non-refundable flight and make my non-refundable hotel reservations and am to depart tomorrow evening. Whoopee do.

This morning I get an email informing me they have an offer on the boat from the guy in Europe! Wait a minute; he hasn't been there yet, right? Well no, wrong. He was there a few weeks ago, before I even booked my flight and he has now submitted an offer, but it was low and they rejected it. He's now considering raising his offer, but hasn't and they are suggesting I put an offer in well above his to "secure my place in line."

WOW am I PO'd. Should I be? It feels like these jerks are using me to jam the other guy to get him to raise his offer. I don't like being used. From emails they copied me; the other buyer has never owned a boat before and knows near nothing about them. He needs to bring the boat to Europe, and hasn't figured out how to do that. This is a 50' boat, not the kind I would want to learn on, but then that's me.

My inclination is to cancel the trip, take the financial hit for the hotel and flight and keep looking. What would you do? I'm all ears and you have my thanks in advance for your comments.

Why oh why does this process have to be so damn frustrating? Damn sleazy yacht brokers. What a pain in the ass this is.

Regards,

TJ
__________________

__________________
Yachts66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 13:22   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 6,844
Go anyway

You've paid for the trip. Take a few days off. Look at the boat. It does sound as if you're being jerked around a bit. If you like the boat proceed as you would have done if you were the only bidder. Salespeople love to tell you that you'd better act quickly or the deal'll be lost! While you're there visit the other brokers in the area. You might be able to make a contact with someone who might be able to check out boats down there for you. A personal visit sure beats e-mails.
__________________

__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 13:36   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Currently based near Jacksonville FL; WHOOSH's homeport is St. Pete, FL USA
Boat: WHOOSH, Pearson 424 Ketch
Posts: 591
TJ:

Well, first off - you go. There's little add'l expense involved at this point, you'll have a chance to walk the docks, perhaps chat with other brokers, and perhaps do a bit of networking with cruisers down "there" (wish you had said where this is) who might know about other available boats, some perhaps only being offered privately. What's the downside?

Should you be PO'd? Maybe...tho' perhaps not, and in any event it will probably prove hard to nail down who has failed to do what. Was the owner's broker not sufficiently detailed in comms to your broker? Was your broker lax? Probably a bit of both. Should you be upset at a broker who uses one party's interest in a boat to lever another interested party? Come on...

Is there anything abnormal in the sequence of events? If I'm reading this right, you now understand that interested party #1 flew out and viewed the boat but didn't make an offer, THEN you made your inquiry and decided to book a flight, THEN party #1 makes an offer, and now your broker (who is losing out on being involved in the sale) is urging you to make a counter offer. Sounds like normal business to me, where everyone is busy looking out for themselves (including you).

The boat is fully available since the first offer was rejected. Were I you, I'd go take a look. If interested, make an offer with the normal contingencies and get it locked down by making your offer valid for only a short time period (48 hrs, let's say). If the other buyer isn't serious enough, he'll become a footnote in the transaction It looks to me like all your options remain available, and you're only PO'd because you discovered there's other interest in the boat and no one took the initiative to mention it via your broker to you. That's just the marketplace...

(Simple rule of thumb: Assume nothing positive about an unknown broker, and then be pleasantly surprised when you learn otherwise. Assume they are ignorant of the boat and must be step-marched thru the process of getting the info you need. Assume they are lazy and need to have it reinforced that they get their commission by actually working for it. Assume the broker knows very little about boating and boats, and that only you will know what the right Q's are, and only you know how to evaluate the A's - which means they don't get to do analysis in lieu of getting facts, but rather they have to actually go get and report the facts to you. All these guidelines would seem to apply when shopping in the Caribbean...).

Good luck and let us know how things work out once you begin kicking the tires...

Jack
__________________
Euro Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 14:03   #4
Registered User
 
capt lar's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cape Cod
Boat: currently "on the beach"
Posts: 729
Images: 12
yep - i agree with all the above. if you buy the boat, you need marina and the rest of it. this trip needed to happen anyway. i would also find the best broker down there and eliminate the middle guy. purchase in the islands typically required deposit in the hands of selling broker, so i am skeptical about the first offer being fully legit. you need someone there to watch your interest.
as to offers - it's subject to survey so not really worth much - an offer on an unseen boat is a waste of everyone's time and they should not even suggest it. inspection, acceptance, survey all need to happen before any buyer is at risk. if you say which island, some on this site will probably know people there. dare i ask if you have purchased other boats and anything near 50 feet ?
__________________
Larry

We have met the enemy and he is us. - Walt Kelly
capt lar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 15:27   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 29,578
Images: 240
I’d get rid of “your” broker - sounds, to me, like he may have been anxious to claim a ‘finder’s fee” (such as in ‘MLS’ situation).
The other broker works for the other guy, so no big surprise there.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 16:03   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Don't spend money untill you are satified. You never put down any money and you never made a formal offer. They can do what they like, but I wouldn't worry or believe any of it. No ned to rush either. Go and see what there is to it. You were I hope prepared to walk away in the first place - you still might.

It would be great if it worked, but not if it won't. Just don't let other people mess with your head. I would survey this one close too. Gord is right if the broker isn't helping you then you don't need him for anything now do you.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 16:30   #7
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
I've done the same...

As one who has driven 1000's of km to look at a boat that was a rotten, overpriced piece of s*** .
I enjoyed the trip, and the lesson in boat buying was priceless.
Keep your head well screwd on.
__________________
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 17:50   #8
Registered User
 
Yachts66's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Jungle, on an Island near the beach
Boat: Roberts 45 Mariah's Child
Posts: 643
Images: 15
Thanks everyone for all your input it was greatly appreciated! I've decided to go, unfortunately my wife can't go with me so in the worst case it won't be much of a vacation, but the money is already spent. I'll continue to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

As a clarification, there are two brokers involved, one representing me and one representing the owner. My pique stemmed from the owner's broker not informing me there was an offer three weeks ago, prior to me making reservations. It seemed to me (and still does) that as a courtesy to me he should have informed me there was a pending offer close to the time he got it and not the day before I was to leave. That just seems chicken to me. Then again, having just survived some major brain surgery perhaps I'm just not thinking right, I can never tell.

The idea presented about getting an agreement prior to the trip is a valid one, but in this case the money is leaving the Country and that makes me super cautious, because if there is a problem I'm a foreigner in a foreign Court trying to get justice from a local. In some places that's not a problem, but in some places it is and the chunk of change involved was not small so I didn't opt to go that route.

We've really had a string of bad experiences lately, mostly centered around brokers misrepresenting boats for Lord knows what reason, but we've wasted a lot of time and money due to this and it's made me rather put off on yacht brokers in general. Then again, like I said maybe my brain just isn't right yet. Who knows? LOL

Oh, it's on St. Maarten and yes I've owned other boats of similar size. My last one was a 43' which I owned for 5 years and lived-a-board for 2. Put a lot of miles under her keel too!

Regards and thanks again for all your input, you are a great group.

TJ
__________________
Yachts66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 18:29   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Currently based near Jacksonville FL; WHOOSH's homeport is St. Pete, FL USA
Boat: WHOOSH, Pearson 424 Ketch
Posts: 591
We'll be standing by, TJ...
__________________
WHOOSH, Pearson 424 Ketch
http://www.svsarah.com/Whoosh/WhooshSection.htm
Euro Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 20:10   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 6,844
Yachts66'

Is it listed with Weathe Eye?
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 20:29   #11
Registered User
 
Yachts66's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Jungle, on an Island near the beach
Boat: Roberts 45 Mariah's Child
Posts: 643
Images: 15
Yes it is, should I be even more worried now?

TJ
__________________
Yachts66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 21:40   #12
Registered User
 
BC Mike's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gabriola BC
Boat: Viking 33 Tanzer 8.5m Tanzer 22
Posts: 1,034
Images: 5
Disclosure

Full and adequate disclosure is the words to live by in this day and age, especially in the financial business.
When you are selling in this situation, having more than one party looking at a boat can be problematic.
Do you owe it to anyone to tell them what someone else is doing.
Sometimes no matter what the broker does he will get in trouble from one of the parties.
As the broker you do not know who is going to buy what.
Your safest bet however is to inform as best you can, and try and not make it appear as if you are trying to get a bidding war thing happening.
It would be easier on the broker if each of you were looking at the boat at different times ( like a month apart ) and that one person had either bought or passed on the boat.
Michael
__________________
BC Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 08:10   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 6,844
Yachts66,

No, it's just that the owner of Weather Eye belongs to the same club as I do, here in Toronto. I haven't heard anything about him that you should worry about.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 16:57   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
You said it

Quote:
Why oh why does this process have to be so damn frustrating? Damn sleazy yacht brokers. What a pain in the ass this is.

Regards,

TJ

You answered your own question. ' Damn sleazy yacht brokers.'

Why do you have one repersenting you? Granted they are going to split the comission, but maybe you can find a boat not represented and avoid this worthless expense all together.

Good luck, enjoy the trip.
__________________
s/v 'Faith' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 17:15   #15
Registered User
 
capt lar's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cape Cod
Boat: currently "on the beach"
Posts: 729
Images: 12
Now, now 'Faith' - While it is true that just about anyone can sell boats, remember there is, within that group, a highly professional crowd of first class people. I found such a person and hired him as a buyer's broker when I was shopping. The guy did a great job and, not to my surprise, the other professionals he recommended to assist in other areas were also first class. Things went smoothly.
I would not attempt to purchase a yacht outside of this country without the help of a first class broker. They know how it works where they are, and they have the contacts to fix problems and avoid delays.
As to the jerk around - I am sure TJ will ask what the deal is and the broker will understand that if he wants to have the opportunity to do business with a qualified buyer, there will not be any more communication problems. That's one reason why the trip makes sense.

Capt. Lar
__________________

__________________
Larry

We have met the enemy and he is us. - Walt Kelly
capt lar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking Cuba ? Think Again ! bobola Health, Safety & Related Gear 116 31-01-2015 07:38
Samson Yacht design jenny head Monohull Sailboats 0 11-03-2004 01:43
Broker recomendation area? irwinsailor Forum Tech Support & Site Help 4 16-10-2003 21:01


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.