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Old 20-02-2015, 07:30   #16
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
but things like shallow bilges etc cant be changed.
I think this is an important point. It changes the motion of the boat out it the big blue. Now if He had a Valiant out there would the person still gotten deathly sea sick? I don't know. My first big (6000 miles plus) journey will be only a few hundred miles off the coast for this very reason... You never know what is going to break in the boat or in the crew until you do it.
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Old 20-02-2015, 08:46   #17
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

It is beyond my technical ability, but maybe someone should go over to the WANNABE thread , and post a link to the link that started this thread. It could be some sobering information for many dreamers, and very valuable information for people that are willing to learn from others. Just a thought. ______Grant.
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Old 20-02-2015, 11:09   #18
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

One of the most striking aspects of this story is the seriously debilitating effects of prolonged seasickness on a member of the crew........

as a "sailor" who suffers from sea-sickness for the 1st 3 days I hope to be sea-sick the day I die, because then I won't care if I die!!!

Bill
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Old 20-02-2015, 11:22   #19
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

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Dunno, but you guys have a SUHWEET avatar!
Thanks!
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Old 20-02-2015, 12:32   #20
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

Boating does attract the dreamers, a good read that hopefully would sober a few of them up. Glad they made the decision to turn back, I think I would have turned back the moment I saw blood coming out of Jack. This is how people get into serious trouble in these situations. I bagged a hiking trip in the Grand Canyon when my hiking partner and nephew had stomach pains and became demoralized after his water bladder leaked and he became dehydrated. It's not worth killing yourself over. But, stories like this shouldn't keep us from doing it, just do it right, be prepared and don't argue when it's time to cancel the trip.
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Old 20-02-2015, 13:19   #21
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

The thing I like about this story is that it is not a story about dreamers.
The skipper had done the trip before, he had spent considerable time and effort preparing his boat, provisions, medical gear, etc...
He had all the right emergency gear, equipment, plenty of crew, VHF, SSB, etc etc..
His briefing was detailed enough to included specific instructions on how to deploy the raft and what they could expect when this was accomplished.

He was capable of jury rigging numerous things that went wrong.
When he had to make the tough decisions he chose the path of least risk.
As is usually the case, they encountered a set of cascading issues but handled their situation with poise.


Sure, hindsight is 20/20 so hand around the exam papers and we'll all get 100%. Of course, we all conduct metallurgy tests and hire marine surveyors, marine medics, riggers, and diesel mechanics before we head offshore.

edit: Yes, of course, i'll concede that his inspections were inadequate, and a good shakedown in rough weather would have shaken out many of the issues.


As the article says "It's the rare person who goes looking for poor weather in which to go to sea". This is, perhaps the biggest lesson. When you think you're ready to, head on out for a couple of nights in rough conditions and come on back, with only your emergency steering. We all know this is a good idea, but all too often the impracticality tends to relegate this strategy to the too-hard-basket.


The armchair critiques seldom really bother me, but on this occasion, I feel comments should be tempered with real experience. I'd be much more interest in hearing "This is what I have done in the past...", as opposed to "He shoulda... cause I woulda...".
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Old 20-02-2015, 13:24   #22
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

Great article. Thank you for sharing.
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Old 20-02-2015, 13:29   #23
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
I think this is an important point. It changes the motion of the boat out it the big blue. Now if He had a Valiant out there would the person still gotten deathly sea sick? I don't know. My first big (6000 miles plus) journey will be only a few hundred miles off the coast for this very reason... You never know what is going to break in the boat or in the crew until you do it.
He may not have gotten sick or less sick on a boat with a better "comfort motion". My wife noticed a difference in a friends boat at the dock. Same builder same length different "rating".
I mention this when noobs ask about what boat to buy. Some don't mind a quick motion my crew does. So the motion weighs heavily on our boat buying decisions.
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Old 20-02-2015, 13:59   #24
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

The flat bottomed, no bilge sump designs which are almost universal will all be miserable on a passage with even moderate winds and seas. With no sump to trap the water that inevitably gets below, the water will slosh around soaking the sole and anything against the hull all the way up to the deck. My first boat was one of these designs and every windward passage of the channels here in Hawaii resulted in a totally soaked boat. To summarize, A BOAT WITHOUT A SIGNIFICANT BILGE SUMP IS NOT A SUITABLE OCEAN GOING BOAT. Sure, you can make passages but in misery if there is any windward work at all or challenging sea conditions.

Had to use the emergency tiller on my boat when the quadrant rotated on the rudder shaft. Boat yard hadn't installed the locking bolt. With the steering cables still attached to the wheel, it was EXTREMELY hard to move the rudder with the emergency tiller. To steer the boat for any length of time would have had to disconnect/cut the steering cables at the quadrant. Thankfully that is all behind me as the wheel is now a garden ornament and the boat tiller steered.

Seasickness can be absolutely debilitating to the point the sufferers can't do anything for themselves. If you take unfamiliar crew on any passage, best to quiz them thoroughly about their susceptibility to it and take them out on the ocean in challenging conditions to see how they will react.
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Old 20-02-2015, 14:20   #25
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

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Sure, you can make passages but in misery if there is any windward work at all or challenging sea conditions.
Misery is dangerous... she is bedfellows with grumpy, tired and illwill... together they dramatically increase the chances of meeting Grandpa Catastrophe.

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Seasickness can be absolutely debilitating to the point the sufferers can't do anything for themselves. If you take unfamiliar crew on any passage, best to quiz them thoroughly about their susceptibility to it and take them out on the ocean in challenging conditions to see how they will react.
I don't get sick until the second day/night, so it will have to be a decent test sail to see how I really am.
I know of several crew who have just lied about thier propensity to seasickness so they dont get left behind.
I'm also a lot more susceptible if the night before has included either alcohol or a little sleep deprivation (or both).

The right drugs are invaluable.
I think its prudent to simply insist that everybody takes thier drug of choice irrespective of any iron stomach claims.

Having said that, the guy in question was wearing a scopoderm patch (which is pretty good as long as you don't start hallucinating), didn't have a history of sea-sickness, and was still debilitatedishly sick!
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Old 20-02-2015, 14:38   #26
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

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My exuberant desire to cast off the lines and sail into the wild blue yonder was tempered a bit by this read, So glad this fellow detailed his experiences as the possible problems one can encounter and the importance of bluewater preparedness become very self evident.
EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe
While reading the article I couldn't help muttering repeatedly...
dickhead boat and dickhead skipper.
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how long has this been going on and why wasn't I told about it earlier.....
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Old 20-02-2015, 14:46   #27
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

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Originally Posted by anacapaisland42 View Post
One of the most striking aspects of this story is the seriously debilitating effects of prolonged seasickness on a member of the crew........

as a "sailor" who suffers from sea-sickness for the 1st 3 days I hope to be sea-sick the day I die, because then I won't care if I die!!!

Bill
Very funny but also has a bit of truth. A friend that was in the navy told me that in really bad weather at least on his ship, they had lookouts on deck to prevent someone really seasick from jumping overboard.
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Old 20-02-2015, 15:35   #28
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
The flat bottomed, no bilge sump designs which are almost universal will all be miserable on a passage with even moderate winds and seas. With no sump to trap the water that inevitably gets below, the water will slosh around soaking the sole and anything against the hull all the way up to the deck. My first boat was one of these designs and every windward passage of the channels here in Hawaii resulted in a totally soaked boat. To summarize, A BOAT WITHOUT A SIGNIFICANT BILGE SUMP IS NOT A SUITABLE OCEAN GOING BOAT. Sure, you can make passages but in misery if there is any windward work at all or challenging sea conditions.

Had to use the emergency tiller on my boat when the quadrant rotated on the rudder shaft. Boat yard hadn't installed the locking bolt. With the steering cables still attached to the wheel, it was EXTREMELY hard to move the rudder with the emergency tiller. To steer the boat for any length of time would have had to disconnect/cut the steering cables at the quadrant. Thankfully that is all behind me as the wheel is now a garden ornament and the boat tiller steered.

Seasickness can be absolutely debilitating to the point the sufferers can't do anything for themselves. If you take unfamiliar crew on any passage, best to quiz them thoroughly about their susceptibility to it and take them out on the ocean in challenging conditions to see how they will react.
Yeah, I greeted at the dock a pair of experienced sailors who bashed their way from Hawaii to Seattle in an older Swan 42. They didn't have any horrendous weather, but a rough trip nonetheless. The entire boat was wet inside.. from dripping hatches, water down the companionway etc etc etc, it smelled and looked like it had rained in the boat.
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Old 20-02-2015, 15:44   #29
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

Seems like a common story. Skipper thought boat was well prepared, even though it leaked from multiple places, rough sailing, someone got sick, water sloshing around, getting everything wet, problems with comms gear, loss of steering...

Great critique afterwards, gives one a lot to think about, pretty much all common sense if one just stops to think about it.

What is the moral of the story? Don't serve soup in rough weather. Crackers only.
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Old 20-02-2015, 15:47   #30
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Re: A great read for newbies like myself Bluewater trouble!

Soups ok as long as it's not HOT
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