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Old 11-12-2014, 15:21   #181
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post

So lets have a look at this particular pyrimid. What does a female cruiser (often) or male (less often) lose from a year cruising?
Lets start from the bottom
On passage they lose warmth, rest and food they are used to,
At sea and at anchor They lose the security they felt in their own home and the safety it garnered to a less seucre and less safe.
All their friends are left behind in the USA, UK, Aus etc, all their kids, grandkids, neices, cousins uncles, aunties, the WHOLE family is discarded.
Sure you,ay get the feeling of acomplishent but one of the needs is Prestige. I.e. Who do you share that feeling of acomplishment with?
Yes you acheive some creative outlets, but you dot get as many, or the diversity of creativity as at home.
And self actualization.... Do you achieve it? Thats about the only one thats a feeling that you can evoke... But really its one that settles quietly upon you when all the preceding are accomplished.
Gosh, looking at cruising in that light makes me wonder why ANYONE of us are out here doing it, let alone enjoying it, unless we are absolute masochists .
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Old 11-12-2014, 15:29   #182
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

I'm guessing that not everybody in the world is locked into that sociological pyramid. In my family, I would say for sure that one of my brothers, and my sister are. I would say my other brother (who travels all over the world and divides the rest of his time between Florida and a cabin in rural Alaska, is more like me, and neither of us fits on that pyramid very well.

And, I would venture that the more a person is locked into that type of philosophy and life view, the less likely they are going to chuck it all, get a boat, and go cruise.

There is also some risk taking quotient that has to be a factor as well. Some people are adverse to any risk and some people are addicted to it. They are not the same people and they do not look at life the same way (I know, I used to have to manage a couple of dozen high risk takers in a hazardous profession, and they gave me premature gray hair).
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Old 11-12-2014, 15:49   #183
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
The cruising budget thread topics get a lot of trashing by people who say they are "cruising" but who are are just living on a boat. Nothing wrong with living on a boat somewhere inexpensive, but if you have been in the same low cost country for 2 years etc it isn't cruising.
Always love this put down. Makes me wonder; how long am I allowed to stay in one area before I lose my cruiser-cred?

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Psychology doesnt really bare much of that out. ... Please read up on it. Because some psychology is real
Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As I say, there decades of good research to show that humans are pretty conservative animals. We don't change easily, and usually only when we're forced to.

For those who think they can work the high-pressure job and live a life of relative luxury AND THEN suddenly switch to something completely different ... well, all I can say is, it ain't gonna happen. The best way to move into a simple, low-cost, mildly adventurous, somewhat risky life is to actually live a simple, low-cost, mildly adventurous, somewhat risky life.

But most people on this thread don't have to do this, and probably don't want to. This is not the $500/month thread. This is the 'cruising in relative luxury' thread. And that's just fine if you can manage it.

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As a caveat to the adage that you can't go cruising without some emergency money in the bank, it's hard for me to believe how many people operate on land with no emergency money in the bank. But, they do, and most seem to make it somehow, emergencies and all.
So true. An increasing number of people in english-speaking western countries are living paycheque to paycheque. The people who first see this treadmill, and then decide to get off it, are exceedingly few. You know though ... we really should be having this kind of discussion in the $500/month thread. The $3K/month folks have different worries and concerns.
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Old 11-12-2014, 16:01   #184
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

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.....
Please read up on it. Because some psychology is real
Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mark, what that pyramid says nothing about is whether you are any happier having those conditions met in excess. More is sometimes just more.

Compared to my life back home:
- I have more meagre shelter and less good food.
- I am not always warm.
- Although I have my most loved one with me and friendships are cemented quickly with other cruisers, communication with the rest of my family and friends is purely internet based and I do miss them. I have learned the hard away purely 'cyber friendships' can be just an illusion.
- I certainly feel less safe and secure at times, but occasionally living on the edge a little actually enhances life for me.
- Prestige? I had to laugh at that one.

I do agree that a feeling of accomplishment is important. I get a lot of satisfaction from a job well done.

I strongly believe that as long as you have just enough, it does not necessarily follow that you are any happier if you have more. According to the pyramid compared to my lifestyle back home I should be miserable given all my "losses". Not so by a LONG shot .

Sorry, slight thread drift .
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Old 11-12-2014, 16:48   #185
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Always love this put down. Makes me wonder; how long am I allowed to stay in one area before I lose my cruiser-cred?

An increasing number of people in english-speaking western countries are living paycheque to paycheque. The people who first see this treadmill, and then decide to get off it, are exceedingly few.
Mike,

Rest assured, you can hop off the treadmill next season, come anchor your keister here in Massachusetts for as long as you like and retain your cruiser status. We speak Canadian, so it'll be fun to spend some time together.

Ken
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Old 11-12-2014, 17:02   #186
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

Quote:
Always love this put down. Makes me wonder; how long am I allowed to stay in one area before I lose my cruiser-cred?
Hmmm...

Seems that one prolific poster has stated that as long as you are sailing on a boat and not racing, then you are cruising (or something like that). I don't agree, but if Sailorboy's criteria is correct, then none of the many folks who "cruise" up and down the East Coast of the US (or Oz) qualify as cruisers... even if they do it full time and for years, for they have remained in one country (arguably not the cheapest, but surely not the most expensive) the whole time.

But then, as far as I know, SB has never actually gone cruising himself...

Jim
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Old 11-12-2014, 17:06   #187
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

How do you Spot a Real Cruiser....That's easy.
Anyone who tries to define what a Real Cruiser is....ISN'T.......

Now...what Rice Dish can I bring to today's Potluck?
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Old 11-12-2014, 17:39   #188
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Re: $3,000/mo cruising budget planned

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My problem is if I stay in the house I'm in, even though it's paid for, the utility bills, taxes, insurance, upkeep etc mean I have to work. If we don't go in three years, she will need a new car etc.

Unless I'm not understanding something, there is a considerable cost associated with NOT going, am I alone in that, is that unusual?
Can you move on the boat and rent the house out? If it is paid for you should be able to get a positive cash flow. Also I would say it is not uncommon to have a few months of the cruising life and then decide it isn't what you(or your spouse)really wanted. Living aboard is harder then living on land even just tied to the dock.
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Old 11-12-2014, 17:47   #189
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

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See I'm thinking one of the biggest expenses and the one you really cannot control, is the one that seems to be ignored, that doesn't make sense
Maybe I missed something in the posts. To what are you referring?
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Old 11-12-2014, 18:14   #190
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$3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

Deleted post once I realized I didn't really care


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Old 11-12-2014, 18:26   #191
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

These days..... Perhaps the modern test of whether you can consider yourself a "real cruiser"..... is if you update your blog at least once a week.
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Old 11-12-2014, 18:35   #192
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

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Mike,

Rest assured, you can hop off the treadmill next season, come anchor your keister here in Massachusetts for as long as you like and retain your cruiser status. We speak Canadian, so it'll be fun to spend some time together.

Ken
Mike, Ive heard the Canadian Kenomac speaks........ bring interpreter
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:35   #193
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

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Psychology doesnt really bare much of that out.

Unfortunately few people know about Maslow and the old hierarchy of needs... But its all pretty true. True to such an extent all school children ought be taught it.

Some of us have worked a whole life time to obtain a certain style of living. Its just not fun to give all that up, as well as some of the other Factors (like all your friends).



So lets have a look at this particular pyrimid. What does a female cruiser (often) or male (less often) lose from a year cruising?
Lets start from the bottom
On passage they lose warmth, rest and food they are used to,
At sea and at anchor They lose the security they felt in their own home and the safety it garnered to a less seucre and less safe.
All their friends are left behind in the USA, UK, Aus etc, all their kids, grandkids, neices, cousins uncles, aunties, the WHOLE family is discarded.
Sure you,ay get the feeling of acomplishent but one of the needs is Prestige. I.e. Who do you share that feeling of acomplishment with?
Yes you acheive some creative outlets, but you dot get as many, or the diversity of creativity as at home.
And self actualization.... Do you achieve it? Thats about the only one thats a feeling that you can evoke... But really its one that settles quietly upon you when all the preceding are accomplished.

Please read up on it. Because some psychology is real
Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Mark


Mark

Maslows pyramid has been around for a long time and it is quite creditable.

But looking at the bottom part of the pyramid

Food, shelter, rest, sex

Everyone will have a different definition of what is enough - but Maslow also noted that these are relative, albeit there is a basic minimum. So some people are perfectly happy with "3 hots and cot" and some need lobster and feather beds (both extremes satisfy the food/shelter) Rest is also relative, although again some minimum is required. The same is true for sex.

Second layer "Safety" is a relative also. When is someone truly "safe"? Maslow interperted "safety" to mean relative long periods of absence from insecurity/fear.

Once these basic needs are realized (and I submit that a prudent sailor in a well-founded boat with a wary eye on the weather forecasts will achieve this) then the upper layers are a matter of personal choice.

Esteem? - whose esteem do you want? If you're an executive, then the esteem of your business peers. As a family person - your kids, parents, spouse, neighbors. As a cruiser, other cruisers (Certainly people like Leonard/Starzinger, Pardeys et.al. are esteemed by their peers for their accomplishments ).

Self realization? - Here's the tough one. What does it take to realize yourself? Some of us are extremely fortunate to have reached this stage in several of life's avenues, and now realize themselves through cruising.

Cruising is a challenge - do it well and the needs Maslow has described will be met. Do it poorly and they will not.

So how does this bear on the cost of cruising? Since these needs are relative - so will your cruising budget be.

Sorry for the long answer

carsten
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:59   #194
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

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Hmmm...


But then, as far as I know, SB has never actually gone cruising himself...

Jim

Well said Jim. I have read most of these posting and more than a few are from folks still sitting dock side getting ready to go who seem to know more than some folks actually cruising. One reason I stopped posting, way to much knowledge from those who have yet set sail.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:28   #195
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Re: $3,000 / Month Cruising Budget Planned

Experienced sailors sometimes give the worst life advice, and even sometimes the worst sailing advice.
Experienced lifers, sometimes give the worst sailing advice, and even sometimes the worst life advice.

It comes down to common sense in the end. We listen to everyone and then make a personal decision as to the advice we take.

I would not ask a coastal cruiser about crossing the Atlantic. I would not ask a transatlantic cruiser about sailing on the British canal system.

The sad thing is that experience also does not automatically equate to someone doing it 'right'.

C.F. has a core of highly experienced members who have done it right and continue to do so. I would recommend the reading of all the posts of someone who is giving advice and seek corroboration from other people who have done the same undertaking you are considering and see if the facts match.

Dont be afraid to ask. Dont be afraid to double check. Armchair sailors will hurt you with their wisdom, and not care.
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