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Old 07-08-2006, 13:41   #31
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I suggest you guy's keep your eyes peeled on secondhand auction sites like Ebay and such. Also check out www.trademe.co.nz. There is a lot of cheap stuff down here in NZ and if the seller won't ship to the US, give me a yell and I could help. That goes for anyone here by the way.
Their are a few chandleries that deal with second hand equipment as well. Surely after your Huricanes, there must be a flodd of equipment somewhere. Some gear you are going to want to go new. Rigging should be new. Good sails can be had second hand and may simply need a recut to suit. I suggest a new Furler and new saftey equipment. The rest can by second hand.
I also suggest you go hydraulic steering. Simple and easy.
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Old 07-08-2006, 13:54   #32
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Thanks, Wheels. how about a 20' cargo cube full of lamb and shiraz like Weyalan(?) was having for dinner the other night?<G>

Hurricanes in the US: Shhh! There's a secret society. Honestly, the insurance companies take title after a claim, and they don't want to bother dealing with the retail public. You know, the riffraff can be such a pain. So the salvage gear goes very quickly, very quietly, by inside deals "to the trade" and a few well known second-hand chandleries are the best way to get any of it. Sadly that's going to be "used retail" pricing but that's how it is, a business like any other. Call or write to any twenty marine insurance companies in the US about buying salvage as an individual...I'll bet not more than two call you back, not more than three more send you a post card. They're just not interested in onesie-twosie business, too much bother for them.
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Old 07-08-2006, 15:38   #33
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Just for the record, the lamb was on special at my local butcher for less than $US 1.25 per lb, and I bought 2 cases of shiraz for less than $US 60, so don't be thinking I have money coming out the wazoo!
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Old 07-08-2006, 15:45   #34
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An odd form of ATM, if that's where the money comes out, where does the card go?<G>

In the US I don't think we've seen any grade of lamb at $1.25/lb. in....maybe 30 years? But at that price, heck, it would have paid to buy it there and ship it here! Give us a shout next time it goes on sale.<G>
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Old 07-08-2006, 16:03   #35
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Its probably one of those "swipe in the slot" types?
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Old 07-08-2006, 19:30   #36
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2bro's,

Welcome to the club, I am building out a Westsail 42.

With regards to all the negative crap you are getting on this thread. Ignore it. Many of the nay sayers here (and elsewhere on the Internet, especially the anonymous cowards) are nothing but half-glass-empty-armchair-boat-builders that probably never fitted a bulkhead in their life.

All the power to ya. A FC boat CAN make a great boat if you dont care about resale value (and NO boat owner shouldnt as it is always a net loss $$).

Take your time, research building techniques, do the design. Dont hesitate to pay for consultation/contract, especially if you want it done in two years.

In the end you will have a boat that you want and you will know it inside and out. Something MANY offshore boaters do NOT know.
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Old 09-08-2006, 19:08   #37
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Dear Wise men of the sea and shipyard

Dear Everyone who has posted to this point about 2bros project,

Hello! I am who has been referred to as bigbro and I would like to thank everyone for all of their comments. This thread has been invaluable so far in making the efw decisions that we have been able to make thus far. Your comments have been insightful, colorful and comprehensive and I thank every one of you for your time.

You have helped me get to the point of finding a shipping company and thanks to hellosailor's input, we have not ruled out trucking companys.

However, before that, we need a surveyor/specialist to come and look at the boat, for a fee of course. We are in great need of someone who can give his or her expert opinion to me on the following:

1. Will it float if we set it in the water?
2. Is there something that our ignorance will not let us see that is a telltale sign that we should walk away?

I have another favor to ask the minds that have already given their time to us so kindly. At your convenience, please please please look at the pictures that I have taken of the boat, and give us your honest opinion of anything and everything.

I have never desired to do anything with such fervor as I have to build this hull and sail it. We do know that it was built using plans from Samsom and we do know that those plans are for the C-Breeze 45.

I rummaged around inside the hull until I found the blu prints and they seem to be mostly there and intact. You will see them in the pictures. The only aspect of this boats origin that is shady to me is that fact that I also found an envelope addressed to the original builder entitled "1 50 myself ketch 86" which makes me wonder if Samsom sold entire kits for the construction of their FC boats.

Could this guy have been giong through the process of building a kit boat from Samson?

You guys are great and are teaching us tons already. If we sail, I will try and find every damn one of you and make you drink a case of Coors Light with us before we go.

Warm regards,

2 bros big bro.

The pictures will be up in this thrad as soon as I figure out how the hell to do it.
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Old 09-08-2006, 19:09   #38
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Old 09-08-2006, 19:45   #39
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Here are the Pics of the Interior....I think.


























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Old 09-08-2006, 19:51   #40
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Here are some more.



Manual Bilge in the engine room.


Engine room, or garden. Notice the spool of line. It is huge gauge for something.



Rear Bedroom.



Seems like what would be a rear head.

The Floor in the galley.



But won't the microwave augment resale?


Hallway into the rear bunk.
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Old 09-08-2006, 20:07   #41
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Hallway towards the front bunk. Beautiful still no real rot. Ceiling unfinished.


Galley looking back. Notice rigging in closet. Like New.


Inner hull close up.


Beautifully finished cedar for something...umm, where are those plans?


Tiled Shower.



Hatchway to rear bunk. Notice the foliage.


Very rear of hull has what appears to be 3/4inch deep cracks that peels in layers. We think it is surface finishes???



FC and plywood on surface under two inches of rotten leaves. FC and plywood has no rot.





The plans.






The hole next to the rear mast mount has me worried. Any ideas?

Thanks for seeing these photos. I apologize for not taking more of the exterior. I will return tomorrow and get you all pictures.

Thanks!

2bros.
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Old 09-08-2006, 21:03   #42
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Hey Bros:

You guys are gutsy taking on a project like this. But if you guys are going for it . . . I've bitten off more than I could chew more than once. The pictures of the stern worry me b/c of all the rust stains I would suggest taking a ball peen hammer and striking the cement solidly and seeing if anything falls apart. If it does there may be some problem with the connection of the cement to the rebar. Secondly before investing $$ into the project what about taking a couple of weekends and cleaning the crap out of the boat. IMHO you would need to do that before you paid a surveyor to do look at the boat for you. Surveyors are not going to want to get dirty. When you do hire a surveyor you will need to make sure that they are well versed in FC boats. Find out how many FC boats they have inspected, what experience they have with FC, and any other questions the board may come up with. Chances are that the surveyor is going to look at it and give it a bad bill f health just b/c it's dirty.
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Old 09-08-2006, 22:21   #43
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To echo charlie, ensure the survey guy has experiance with FC. He MUST have plenty of building experiance. Guy's that don't understand FC will have no clue. More than likely it will be some Old timer in Semi retirement. Another idea is to contact Samson, if anyone is still around and see if they can help you.

I didn't realise the boat had started to be fitted out. Quite a bit of work has been done. I don't think this will take as much work or money as I was expecting. I was thinking it was a bare FC hull with nothing.

I think it would be valueable to water blast the top clean. Give the inside a real clean out. That's for your work environment as much as anything.

The mast step looks interesting. When you say "hole" is this through the plaster. I can't quite make out what I am looking at there. Plaster repair is easy, and a hole that size is easy. I wonder if that is for mast cables to enter through the deck. I also imagine these masts will be deck steped, but a support underneath to take the load to the keel.

The stern does look a bit ruff. Is this the only area the hull looks like this?? A few better exterior shots would be great.
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Old 10-08-2006, 03:12   #44
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I would get the high presure washer on the outside to see what is under the dirt, and it will make the surveyors job easier.

Your surveyor must have experience of FC otherwise you are waisting your money. Explain what sort of survey you want, and be there when he does it. You will be able to question him as he does the survey, and will learn more in a few hours than you can possibly imagine!
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Old 10-08-2006, 06:08   #45
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If you decide to pressure wash the hull before survey, do not add bleach or fungicides. The discoloraton will give the surveyor clues about the extent of delamination and hairline cracking.

I must say that the design of this boat is really dated, mediocre, and would not be a design that I would ever chose to take offshore. This appears to be a very deep draft boat which will not even be able to get into many of the best sailing venues of the world. This is a brutally heavy hull which means all of the sailing and propulsion gear will be very expensive in order to be robust enough to deal with the large loads involved. Fuel consumption rates will be huge and the poor sailing characteristics of a boat like this means a whole lot of motoring.

Even if this were an appropriate design, this boat appears cobled together. The boat appears to be wired with residential wiring. It appears to be full of non-marine materials which will be problematic over the long haul. A properly built FC boat should not have the kind of delamination that you see in the stern area which makes me suspicious of the build quality of rest of the hull.

I also want to point out that the hull and deck is roughly 20-25% of the cost of building a boat. When you talk about building out a boat this big you are talking about spending years of your life and 100's of thousands of dollars. If you really plan to sail around the world, find a decent design, in decent shape, put a little effort into cleaning the boat up and go.

You could buy a boat like a Peterson 44 in good shape for less than the cost of buying the material and equipment for masts, spars, running and standing rigging, sails, and deck hardware for a rediculously heavy displacement 55 footer. Boats this heavy require big crews and big gear. Boats this heavy are brutal to handle in heavy air short- handed.

You guys are planning to sail around world. That is no walk in the park. If you must build a boat, pick a good design, and build it properly. If there are only two of you, pick a much smaller design. It will cost you less in the long run and be far easier to handle.

I don't want to rain on your dream of fitting out an interesting boat and going cruising. I am just saying that this is a very expensive way to pursue that dream and that there are far better choices out there for the vehicle upon which to lavish your assets and attention.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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