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Old 08-05-2015, 10:12   #76
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
I guess I lost count. Wife says six days per her journal. Here's what a mainsail without battens or a leach cord looks like when hove to in +65 knots.
Hell of a story, Delancey. You said your W-E crossing occurred last year during "late season." Wasn't sure if this meant late in the typical season when boats often make this crossing from the Caribbean (i.e. late spring/early summer), or later in the year (i.e. fall). Just curious since there's a lot of talk on this thread about April/early May being too early. Also, if I may ask, what type & size boat?

Again, a heck of a sea story, although I got the impression your wife may have had a different take on it! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:34   #77
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
The names of the other Yachts have already been posted, Us: Manca 3 (MMSI 367641150), Dutch: Gandul, Swedish: Missy 32 but i cannot find the type and brand of the yachts. It is not possible to have more information with the MMSI?

Polux, you can type the MMSI or vessel name in marinetraffic.com or vesselfinder.com
Occasionally they will have a picture of the vessel. I don't think MMSI registry generally list yacht type
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:18   #78
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Old ex-IOR racer. Tiny mainsail. Boom is almost six feet off the deck and very short. Ginormous headsails. Yes, that is the deepest reef that mainsail had, and no it is actually not a lot of cloth to have up in those winds on that particular boat.

What you see in the hove to picture was the 25 year old "delivery" main. The good one being the first one we tore and the one I later repaired. The headboard of the delivery main is hanging in Peter's.

Always good for a laugh to say it doesn't look that bad in the photos. If only you could see the look on the owner's face in this photo. I blurred it out of respect for his anonymity. Suffice it to say we don't talk much anymore but he still has my respect and best wishes.

Sad though, that trip ended twenty five years of sailing together. Mainly because I disagreed we should be so far north at the time which he had insisted. He had his reasons (schedule) and got burned by it in the end. Not like you never heard that one before.

By "late" season I mean July. But I wouldn't discourage anyone from either early or late as long as they know the risks and are prepared to suffer the consequences. We were and we did. Crossing an ocean is always a crap shoot any time of the year. The only thing that cannot be left to chance is you. Listen to Boatie, he knows.

Regarding my wife, a wise man I once knew told me when I was young "you love a few, you leave a few, a couple kick you out, then you find the right one".

She was quite frankly terrified most of the time but I remind her she survived and that she is now a member of a very select club. She says whatever. Not a club she wants to be a part of. But, and this is a huge but, but she also says she will do a crossing on our boat. I am the luckiest guy on the planet. God I love that woman. It was her idea to get the boat we live on.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:45   #79
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
I'll just say the usual when a photo/video is posted:

The conditions in that photo couldn't be more than 10 knts and 1 meter waves

Matt
Funny - I noticed the same thing Not one white cap on the water.

But really, to have that much sail up in 65 knots mean's you deserve whatever happens. Of course IMO.

I can't imagine the horror of the father with his daughter though. Tragedies happen but they will unlikely ever get over this one.
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:45   #80
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

460 square foot foretriangle. 310 square foot main. 35 year old design racing mono with an almost 8' fin keel and a detached partial skeg hung rudder. Do you even know what hove to means? Doesn't sound like it. To have another reef in that main you might as well just take the damn thing down. Then you aren't exactly hove to? Are you?

Anyone who has been there and done that knows the downwash from the sails flattens the sea immediately to leward. Makes it's own little tiny waves. Anybody who has actually been there and done that doesn't need to see the look in the owners eyes. They can just look at the sea state in the background.

Can't take photos to windward in that kinda wind, all you see is wet. Duh.
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:49   #81
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

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460 square foot foretriangle. 310 square foot main. 35 year old design mono with an almost 8' fin keel and a detached partial skeg hung rudder. Do you even know what hove to means? Doesn't sound like it. To have another reef in that main you might as well just take the damn thing down. Then you aren't exactly hove to? Are you?

Just to make sure you know, I was 100% kidding with you.
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Old 08-05-2015, 13:02   #82
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

No, I could tell you were joking. I was mostly referring to Palarran, who I have nothing against personally. Just seemed like a really unnecessary comment. So why do it?

Some kid dies and you're gonna be a smart guy and tell me I deserved whatever I got because in your uninformed opinion I had too much cloth up to heave to in those conditions? After I already explained it was an old IOR boat? Fair winds dude.
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Old 08-05-2015, 13:26   #83
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Thanks for that Delancey. I had seen it in the video and was wondering if it had been a marker color dropped from the aircraft, although it didn't seem like it.
What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice, and added to the discussion to add some clarity and a different view.

There was a very clear view of a bright green dye marker shown in the beginning of the video. As seen at video point (0:14) the video shows the two crewmen on the fixed wing aircraft dropping the dye marker (through the hull/floor of the plane), then the video cuts to the dye marker as seen from the air.



SAR planes can drop those as it is easier to spot the green dye from altitude and from a distance and MUCH easier to see it when the surface of the water has streaks of white foam, which make distinguishing a white hulled boat difficult to pick out/see/identify. Of course the bright green dye will dissipate over time.

Several aircraft were involved in these SAR missions. Some aircraft are fixed wing and get there first to spot the boat and they can drop a marker to make it easier for others to find the boat. Sometimes they drop a survival kit (e.g. raft).

A boat's crew can also release a dye marker, and I think it is a very good idea to have one in the ditch bag if you are concerned about being seen from the air if you have to go into a raft or need rescue.

Of course others may see it differently. This is how I see it.
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Old 08-05-2015, 14:19   #84
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

I can't get all screen grabby right now maybe later but it's not the same color as the dye marker shown earlier and during the six or so seconds I count it visible it is constantly changing in appearance. Yes, we were well stocked with signals.

The camera is a very long telephoto and close cropped so the relationship between the turquoise patch in the foreground and the boat length is not so different as it would be with a wider angle where the foreshortening effect is more pronounced. A64pilot can prolly tell you more about that.

The wave has broken before it is visible. How long did it take the wave to break over that length before it is visible? How quickly does a bubble rise?

Depends on the size of the bubble. Big ones can ascend one meter per second. Smaller ones much slower. How big are the bubbles when a ten meter wave break. I have no clue.

Can a breaking wave bury air bubbles half it's height? Well if the measure of the wave height is one half it would seem so wouldn't it?

How do I know that the bubbles from seas that size can rise for almost as long as half a minute after breaking?

Because I've been there and it was balls on and when you're doing better than ten knots with a handkerchief, you pay attention to these things.
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Old 08-05-2015, 14:37   #85
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

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Funny - I noticed the same thing Not one white cap on the water.

But really, to have that much sail up in 65 knots mean's you deserve whatever happens. Of course IMO.

I can't imagine the horror of the father with his daughter though. Tragedies happen but they will unlikely ever get over this one.

that is really bad thing to say. they dont need your pitty right now. it may be cultural and unintended but it is really not helping.
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Old 08-05-2015, 18:19   #86
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Regarding that halo rescue, I seem to have read that it may have been a US aircraft part of an international SAR exercise in that area. US navy's help was solicited by Portugese .. That could explain the availabiliy of the aircraft. As for the type of halo..?
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Old 08-05-2015, 19:46   #87
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Hi Delancey
This is a great story.. or should I say 'report/log'. Of course I have no doubt in its veracity, since I plan to sail in these waters (Portugal to France via Ašores) sometimes in August-September. Which brings me to ask you at what time of the year did you go through this mesmerising wet hell. I like the fact that you enjoyed it, I also believe in the beauty of nature, however terrifying it can be. Went through similar storm in Golfe du Lion, Mediterranean. A one night hell while it lasted. But what a beautiful sunrise ..
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Old 08-05-2015, 21:19   #88
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Keep an eye in the Azores high which looks like it 'may' be in position in about a week..
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Old 08-05-2015, 21:47   #89
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Maybe it would be a good idea to automatically have threads like this one, along with the rescue video merged with the multitude of "blue water boat" threads where the OPs insist that boats which have been built to a minimum standard are OK for world cruising?

Just a thought.
You mean that the Swan 42 also abandoned in that storm should not have been taken offshore? Quite right of course, obviously a cheaply built boat and totally unsuitable for blue water.
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Old 08-05-2015, 22:47   #90
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Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
The names of the other Yachts have already been posted, Us: Manca 3 (MMSI 367641150), Dutch: Gandul, Swedish: Missy 32 but i cannot find the type and brand of the yachts. It is not possible to have more information with the MMSI?

One thread gave a decent summary of what the reported issues were:
http://foro.latabernadelpuerto.com/s...5&postcount=21

Google translated:
"To summarize:

Kolibri (Norway) mast broke and without communications. 4 crew saved.
Manca3 (USA) ungoverned. 2 crew saved.
Gandul (nationality?) Broken rudder. 2 crew saved.
Missy32 (Swedish). Tipping. They continue to receive assistance and direction. 2 crew.
Reves'do (French) fire and sinking. 4 crew rescued. One child later died from hypothermia."

It appears the Gandul is a home build catamaran according this post:
http://foro.latabernadelpuerto.com/s...5&postcount=55

Google translate:
"Indeed is the Gandul Gustavo Diaz. I've done with him 3 races Huelva-La Gomera, and I can assure you that it is a type rather than experienced. The catamaran built it himself in his native Argentina to cross the Atlantic on the occasion of the celebration of the Expo 1992, where he was multitudinously received. It has several crossings of the Atlantic and as he told me, had suffered two temporary survival beyond the Patagonia, having to withdraw into the cabin to heave.
Fortunately they have saved my life, but lost their means of earning a living, now he was going pretty well."

The Manca 3 appears to be a Beneteau First 47.7
http://www.sailingnetworks.com/boats/view/15862

I've seen quite a few yachts named Kolibri but none had a Norwegian flag. She appears to be the Swan in the video.

I haven't seen anything on Missy 32.

Hopefully this helps a bit. God speed to the little girl that died and condolences to the family.
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