Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2015, 16:34   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rockland Harbor, ME
Boat: Triangle 32, center-cockpit ketch
Posts: 40
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Is it time to inject a discussion of storm tactics into the thread? I see in the video the boat seems to be trailing one warp, and bare poles. Hardly a significant response if conditions were as bad as the reports suggest. With due respect to the crews, were these boats - and crews - ready for the potential of significant weather?
__________________

__________________
kjdavie01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 17:05   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Laboe - Germany
Posts: 443
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Quote:
Is it time to inject a discussion of storm tactics into the thread?
For my personal taste not within this thread.

Quote:
I see in the video the boat seems to be trailing one warp, and bare poles. Hardly a significant response if conditions were as bad as the reports suggest.
You see a 5 min or so snippet thats it. Nobody has a clue how things looked b4 that.
And judging from a cozy chair if this is "...Hardly a significant response..." or not makes me a bit sick ...

My 2ct

Carsten
__________________

__________________
CarstenWL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 17:11   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 935
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

there are only 2 reasons people call mayday, either the boat is damaged to the point that it is no longer seaworthy or the crew are unable to cope. The ONLY person competent to judge either is the skipper and we don't have there account.
The other point is that this is a bad area for forecasts, right at the bottom edge of the charts and a long way from the transmitters so it is possible they did not see it coming.
I have been in 100km winds in the Atlantic (Biscay in Feb), impressive is about the only publishable word I can think of. We got knocked flat in a 28ton sixty footer with water coming through the center line dorades so I can well imagine boats around 40ft having problems. I agree you get no sense of the sea state on camera even if it is on deck! The old saying was that each point on the Beaufort scale doubles the severity so think of a gale (8) double it, double it again, then double it yet again!!!! that's an 11, 50kn which is about what they got, survival conditions for even the best of boats and crews under 50ft
__________________
roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 17:19   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 596
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
...
This is the second boat kid to die in as many weeks. It's a rare occurrence, and I know kids die on land all the time, too... But it still shakes my confidence to have two die so close together.
...
A nine year old was just killed when a car hit him. The child was out riding with his dad and some friends when the kid darted out into the street. The car that hit him was only going 12 mph and the driver could not stop in time. Bad stuff happens.

In the last year or so we have had 4-6? kids killed by drivers ignoring stopped school buses and killing kids. One poor mother saw her kids books in a ditch and then found his body. It has been so bad the legislature is looking at a law to allow county school buses to have cameras installed to catch cars that are passing stopped school buses.

Take your family and go if you can and they want too. I wish we could have done so but it was not possible.

Later,
Dan
__________________
dannc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 18:02   #50
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Thanks for the post A4
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 18:42   #51
Registered User
 
stevensuf's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Back in Scotland!
Boat: Gib sea 43
Posts: 840
Images: 10
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Once again the armchair sailors come out to criticise, I would love to see how they coped in a tough situation, Its all easier said than done.

Everyone has their breaking/quitting point and you do not know where your own point lies till you have been put to the test!

It all fair and well saying Ive seen a F8/9 or whatever a few miles from the shore, where you can run home when you get weary, but stuck in a BIG ONE, that goes on for days and days, it feels never ending, Throw in some novice crew who maybe start to panic, get near mutiny point, morale gets low, some breakages or injuries , no sleep, poor food, everything becomes a major effort.


Cold , damp, hungry, dirty, miserable, tired, seasick, nauseaous etc

Yes , after many days on that rollercoaster ride, some people just want to get off!

And I can't blame them. nor should you!
__________________
http://nicnsteve.blogspot.com/

If the pen is mightier than the sword, then my keyboard must be a nuclear missile!
stevensuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 18:57   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 935
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannc View Post
A nine year old was just killed when a car hit him. The child was out riding with his dad and some friends when the kid darted out into the street. The car that hit him was only going 12 mph and the driver could not stop in time. Bad stuff happens.

In the last year or so we have had 4-6? kids killed by drivers ignoring stopped school buses and killing kids. One poor mother saw her kids books in a ditch and then found his body. It has been so bad the legislature is looking at a law to allow county school buses to have cameras installed to catch cars that are passing stopped school buses.

Take your family and go if you can and they want too. I wish we could have done so but it was not possible.

Later,
Dan
It works in Canada, we had the same problem. Bus drivers could report offenders but without the camera had no proof. If people know they will get snapped and fined they stop doing it.
__________________
roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 20:11   #53
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

R.I.P. To all sailors lost at sea.
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 20:26   #54
Registered User
 
svmariane's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently in South Pacific. Home Port: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Celestial, Stay'sl-Rigged Sloop, 48 ft
Posts: 1,163
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

^^^ This. ^^^
__________________
"Being offended is not the same thing as being right." Dave Barry.
Note: Offense is always taken, never given.
When life hands you lemons..... add gin & tonic!
svmariane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 20:39   #55
Registered User
 
svmariane's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently in South Pacific. Home Port: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Celestial, Stay'sl-Rigged Sloop, 48 ft
Posts: 1,163
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Re: Helicopter range - it depends. We'd need to know the specifics for that particular SAR copter.

But in general:

The EH-101 {now redesignated as AW101} can be outfitted with a probe for aerial refuelling. Doable in bad wxr, but a bit tricky. Example: Lost one bird which couldn't grab the bit for inflight refuel - an event depicted in a film entitled "The Perfect Storm". Different bird model, but still...

Also: The three tanks hold 3,222l of fuel. The fourth tank acts as a reservoir supply to top up the main tanks during flight. There is capacity for an additional transfer tank to increase the helicopter's range.

The range can be extended by the hover in-flight refuelling (HIFR) capability. {Grab a fuel line from aboard some ship & refuel without touching down.}

The crew are able to select pressure refuel, defuel, jettison and buddy-to-buddy refuelling.
__________________
"Being offended is not the same thing as being right." Dave Barry.
Note: Offense is always taken, never given.
When life hands you lemons..... add gin & tonic!
svmariane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 21:55   #56
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,462
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

This photo is a screen grab from the fixed-wing portion of the video. It shows something that is very beautiful and it is something that is also very scary.

It is not a trick of the light that makes the patch of water in the foreground to appear turquoise. There is no bright spot of sunshine peaking through a sucker hole of blue sky.

It is because this is what is left after a city-housing-block-sized wave has broken and left bubbles of air trapped meters and meters beneath the surface.

I do not know how deep it makes the bubbles go but the turquoise patches have a surprisingly long life which makes me think the bubbles go very deep. Deeper than the boat is long I know for sure. Probably much deeper.

When you see it it is very beautiful because the color stands out in brilliant contrast to sullen blackness of the sea and the stark nakedness of the white caps and brooding grey color of the sky. It is like the color of happy sunny days where there is a beach and cold beer.

But it is different. It is not the color of happy sunny days and there is no beach. There might be cold beer but that is for some other time.

Right now you have much more important things to worry about. You are worrying about getting caught by a wave that will put bubbles under the water much deeper than your boat is long.

But still, it is very beautiful and if you have seen it yourself you will know what I mean.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	309
Size:	34.4 KB
ID:	101586  
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 23:22   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Thanks for that Delancey. I had seen it in the video and was wondering if it had been a marker color dropped from the aircraft, although it didn't seem like it.
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 02:15   #58
Registered User
 
kaerou's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Port-aux-Français
Boat: Capt11-Aluminium sloop twin keel twin rudders-11m
Posts: 18
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

It'd be interesting to know why the crew had to be evacuated from that boat on video? Main is furled, staysail (sorry, in French 'Trinquette') is also furled. Looks like they were going bare pole, with a anchor line. It shows there was some form of control. So why the airlift?
__________________
Jean-Marie
s/v "Kaerou"
MMSI#635019100
kaerou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 03:02   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,099
Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

if it was rolling there was structural weakness, likely.

Still remember these sailor faces from sydney to hobart abandoning the boat with large hole on the deck where mast supposed to go up.
__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 03:32   #60
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,207
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?

Excellent Post.. Thanks..
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqu4tro View Post
Hi, I just saw it on the news here, so I´ll try to get you the information we are getting here in Portugal. It´s my 1st post, and translation is not easy in another language, so bear with me:

Our Coast Guard is saying conditions were Severe.
There were at least 2 capcized boats

According to our Navy, in this operation were used:
2 C-295M Airplanes
1 EH 101 Merlin helicopter
1 PC-3 Orion Airplane
1 C 130 J from the american coast guard that was in the Azores

The rescue mission took about 12 hours under 50Kn winds and 33ft seas, aparently conditions had been worse but by the time these news images were taken the weather had calmed down to half of what it was.

First distress calls were recieved in Azores 2 AM on the 6th April.
At 1 AM on the 7th 3 of the 5 rescue missions were completed, and ongoing operations ; 2 sailboats / 6 sailors(2 childs) still to go.

The Lagoon 400 Rêves D´ô was 500nm / 930Km south of the Azores with 2 adults and 2 children.
The M. Ship Yuan Fu Star from Hong Kong was asked to go to the crash site, arriving at 4 AM and rescuing the mother and the 9y old boy from a life raft.
Apparently the sailboat had just sunk recently but the husband and 6 y old girl were not able to get in to the life raft and were adrift.
The Portuguese airforce deployed the P-C3 Orion to the site to try to locate them.
2 hours later at first light, they were able to spot them and threw them a survival kit. The Spanish Hospital ship Ezperanza del Mar got to they´re position at 9:30h and rescued them but moments after the litle girl would not resist the hipothermia.

So, this is all I could get and "verify", there is also some more unconfirmed information but i won´t put it over here because it will just fuel speculation.

Very sad news news over here in Portugal, I ask you please to avoid all speculation if you can. Phrases like : it doesn´t seem that bad, I would wait it out, ocean capable it is not etc, just hurts those that survived this thing ! .........and will keep them from telling us what/how it happened, so in the end it´s our loss of important learning information.

I can not even imagine the pain of those parents.

A4
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Azores, azores

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Wanted: Panama to Fl and Fl to Azores to Gib 2015 firstmatejac Crew Archives 10 21-03-2015 19:24
Crew Available: 2015 Is My Year To Cruise. Looking For More Experience onebigadventure Crew Archives 3 06-11-2014 19:13
Crew Wanted: Year in the Med 2015 on a Hanse 505 Hanse Sailor Crew Archives 13 17-03-2014 15:17



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.