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Old 14-09-2013, 14:07   #16
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

We just flew, by DHL, 8 lbs of watermaker parts into Bonaire...the cost $209... a one way airline ticket Miami to Bonaire is $260.
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Old 14-09-2013, 14:45   #17
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

Mark,
THANK YOU!
Thank you for your detailed and learned posting above....
Those deciding on an outboard would do well reading your post!!

Most importantly, is your observation/recommendation about water in the fuel!!
No matter what engine, no matter where in the world you cruise, this always seems to be a problem for some...



I hope you don't mind a minor correction though??
Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I gave the example of the 4-stroke Suzuki 20hp weighing 97lbs compared to the 87lbs of the 2-stroke Yamaha 15hp (no 2-stroke weighs 80lbs anymore).
I own a 2005 model year Yamaha 15-hp, 2-stroke (North American model, NOT the "Endro"), bought it new (right herein Florida) after my dinghy was stolen here in Florida in late 2005....
The specs/manual that came with it shows its weight as 78lbs...and I have weighed it myself and it also comes in at 78lbs...
The on-line manual I just looked at, shows 79lbs...(see link here)
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/s...rrent_1793.pdf

So, while I'm sure your experiences are true, my Yamaha 15-hp, 2-stroke DOES weigh less than 80lbs....
Just wanted to be clear that while your experiences may show the "newer" 2-strokes are heavier, mine is not....



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Old 14-09-2013, 17:34   #18
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

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Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
I hope you don't mind a minor correction though?? I own a 2005 model year Yamaha 15-hp, 2-stroke (North American model, NOT the "Endro"), bought it new (right herein Florida) after my dinghy was stolen here in Florida in late 2005....
The specs/manual that came with it shows its weight as 78lbs...and I have weighed it myself and it also comes in at 78lbs...
Like I said in point #4, not all 2-stroke Yamaha's are the same. Yours is the one Yamaha sold in the US when they still could. The Enduro's sold in the Caribbean are much different beasts. Some of the parts are the same, but many are not.

The non-Enduro 2-strokes were much better and more advanced engines. They were offered with charging kits and electric start for some models, ands attempted to the end to comply with tightening environmental regulations. I think they are still offered for sale in Australia and New Zealand and surrounding parts.

In the Caribbean, it is only Enduro's.

The Enduro engines are basically built as cheaply as possible. They are old designs and use heavier components. They are priced much cheaper also.

This can actually be a good thing for reliability, but the price is paid in weight. They weigh 88lbs (my earlier post was wrong - it is 1lb heavier than I posted): Yamaha Outboard Engine 2stroke Enduro E15DMHL

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Old 14-09-2013, 17:51   #19
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Here is the real truth on this issue, and not "common knowledge" or decade old experience.

1. You rarely need "parts" for outboards.

2. Parts can be obtained for any engine anywhere in the world by simply flying them in with a commercial shipping service. The cost is usually the same as charged locally, if they even have the part.

How do you get past customs and stuff like that? All I have heard/read is it is a real problem and costs.



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Mainland Mexico it's this little monster these days.

CG 125 Cargo
OH MAN!! I want one of those. I put 65,000 miles (that's right - 65k) on a Honda CB125 in the 70s-82. What an engine. I'll bet it is even better now.
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Old 14-09-2013, 17:58   #20
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Re OP: Brand name and model are much more signficant than number of cycles.

Here in the Western Carib, Yamaha dominates the market with the Enduro series (2 stroke, central american build) being by far the most popular motor. I own 3 Enduros (15, 25, 60) and have never had trouble getting reasonably priced parts locally for any of them. Including parts for a full rebuild of the 60. Good mechanics with knowledge of these motors are common.

By contrast I also own a Tohatsu and a Johnson...both are sitting in my workshop waiting for me to import parts.

You can buy non Yamaha brands like Tohatsu here, but parts availability is a problem.
Actually, you are kind of making my point.

You say Western Carib, but you actually mean only a very specific section of the Western Carib. In Panama, Tohatsu is very big and in Guatemala and Honduras, Suzuki is big. Looking around here in the Rio Dulce, almost everything being sold is 4-stroke. In Panama, it is about even.

So if one is cruising to different areas, the make/model of engine is really not that important unless one is staying in an area for a long time and expects to have to do a complete rebuild.

If you are waiting for parts for an engine, it is because you haven't ordered them yet - not because it is difficult or expensive to get parts delivered. Heck, I just ordered an entire outboard from the US and had it delivered to Guatemala for a total of $300 shipping. The entire cost was $1000 less than the same outboard being sold here (actually, the model being sold here is an older one)!

A good mechanic will have knowledge of all motors - there really isn't anything brand specific or rocket science about small outboards. I can, and have, repaired many dozens of almost every outboard brand made without any brand specific knowledge. Any model specifications needed for lashings, runouts, etc can be found in seconds on the internet. Besides, one should ALWAYS have a service manual for their engine onboard regardless of one's ability to actually use it.

So if one is going to cruise throughout the Caribbean (and possibly beyond), and one doesn't want to change their outboard for every region they visit, then one doesn't need to worry about the actual brand or model they buy.

Having said that, one will also be served well by buying a Yamaha 15hp Enduro, if that fits in with one's expectations of fuel usage, pollution, noise, etc. These are good, reliable engines and they are sold almost everywhere in the Caribe. "Parts" are not universally available. Again, I urge everyone to do some research themselves on this. You have had good luck in your town/region, but I already stated an example of a simple jet being unavailable in Panama.

A different choice of another good brand/model of engine will not leave one high and dry - and a 4-stroke model of any brand will not either.

Mark
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:04   #21
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post


If you are waiting for parts for an engine, it is because you haven't ordered them yet - not because it is difficult or expensive to get parts delivered. Heck, I just ordered an entire outboard from the US and had it delivered to Guatemala for a total of $300 shipping. The entire cost was $1000 less than the same outboard being sold here (actually, the model being sold here is an older one)!

I got a lot to learn I guess.
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:09   #22
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

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How do you get past customs and stuff like that? All I have heard/read is it is a real problem and costs.
.
That is highly dependent on where you are and how you ship things.

If you are shipping in your next 2 years supply of maintenance items like oil filters and zincs, the costs of even the most onerous customs charges are minimal because the cost of the parts themselves are not great.

Other countries have very little customs charges. Grenada and Panama have been inexpensive, for example.

The other way to reduce customs charges is by method of shipping. In Guatemala, customs is steep on things brought in by airplane, but there are no custom charges at all on things brought in by ocean cargo (or at least any minimal charges are included in the very reasonable freight charges). In Panama, custom charges could be (illegally) inflated greatly by custom officials looking to line their pockets. But if you use a commercial company like Marine Warehouse to bring your stuff in, there are only minimal custom charges (2% or less).

This thread is discussing outboards and their parts. Parts don't cost that much, so even high customs often bring the total to just what the locals sell them for (remember, they pay for getting parts also), and the additional cost isn't a back breaker (although it always pisses me off).

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Old 14-09-2013, 18:23   #23
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

Fascinating thread....

Right now I have a *cough* 2.5 HP Mercury *cough*

I need to get something a little bigger as 2,5 won't plane my RIB. I am heading to the Caribbean for a year, so wondering about a good motor to get.

The Yamaha Enduro's are interesting, but you don't seem to be able to get them in the US.
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:29   #24
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

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The Yamaha Enduro's are interesting, but you don't seem to be able to get them in the US.
But no problem at all in the Bahamas, Turks and Cacos, and the rest of the Caribbean. Only a problem in the US.

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Old 14-09-2013, 18:47   #25
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....

You say Western Carib, but you actually mean only a very specific section of the Western Carib. In Panama, Tohatsu is very big and in Guatemala and Honduras, Suzuki is big. Looking around here in the Rio Dulce, almost everything being sold is 4-stroke. In Panama, it is about even.

....
No, I mean what I said. Throughout Central America sales of Yamaha Enduro engines far exceed any other make/model.
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Old 14-09-2013, 18:57   #26
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

Well, after over 2 years in Panama I can say that Yamaha and Tohatsu is a tight race. I see fewer Yamaha's here in Guatemala than Suzuki. Honduras definitely does not lean Yamaha. I can't speak from experience for Mexico. Columbia didn't sell much of anything.

Even if the Yamaha Enduro edges in numbers sold, it is not such a dominant engine that it displaces others in all parts of the Caribe.

And 4-strokes are definitely common throughout the Caribe, as are people who know how to work on them.

But the issue that everyone is not addressing is just how much work and "parts" are people needing that the actual make and model is so important? We meet very few people with problems that a simple fuel filter can't solve, and almost no one that needs "parts" for a knackered engine. Sure, people need carb rebuild and water pump kits every few years, but you should be carrying those onboard.

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Old 14-09-2013, 19:02   #27
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
That is highly dependent on where you are and how you ship things.

If you are shipping in your next 2 years supply of maintenance items like oil filters and zincs, the costs of even the most onerous customs charges are minimal because the cost of the parts themselves are not great.

Other countries have very little customs charges. Grenada and Panama have been inexpensive, for example.

The other way to reduce customs charges is by method of shipping. In Guatemala, customs is steep on things brought in by airplane, but there are no custom charges at all on things brought in by ocean cargo (or at least any minimal charges are included in the very reasonable freight charges). In Panama, custom charges could be (illegally) inflated greatly by custom officials looking to line their pockets. But if you use a commercial company like Marine Warehouse to bring your stuff in, there are only minimal custom charges (2% or less).

This thread is discussing outboards and their parts. Parts don't cost that much, so even high customs often bring the total to just what the locals sell them for (remember, they pay for getting parts also), and the additional cost isn't a back breaker (although it always pisses me off).

Mark
Thanks.
I was thinking about the whole outboard thing too.
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Old 14-09-2013, 19:15   #28
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...

But the issue that everyone is not addressing is just how much work and "parts" are people needing that the actual make and model is so important? We meet very few people with problems that a simple fuel filter can't solve, and almost no one that needs "parts" for a knackered engine. Sure, people need carb rebuild and water pump kits every few years, but you should be carrying those onboard.

Mark
Yes, for most of the life of an OB, most problems can be solved with simple carb maintence. So, if you carry a carb kit or two, impellers, and plugs as spares then that covers the most common issues. Maybe an electronics module.

But, when you do need parts, sure is handy to walk into a local supplier and buy them off the shelf...like I can do back home on the Rio Dulce.
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Old 14-09-2013, 19:49   #29
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

Don't know anything about the Yamaha Enduro 2 stroke. I do know that worldwide Yamaha is everywhere. How is this engine compared to the USA/Canada standard of past years 15hp Yamaha 2 stroke. What does it cost and how does that compare to a Yamaha 4 stroke? Is it as dependable as the USA/Canada model? What does a Tohatsu 2 stroke cost? How are prices on RIBs in the Caribbean compared to the USA?
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Old 14-09-2013, 20:02   #30
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Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke outboard in Caribbean

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Don't know anything about the Yamaha Enduro 2 stroke. I do know that worldwide Yamaha is everywhere. How is this engine compared to the USA/Canada standard of past years 15hp Yamaha 2 stroke. What does it cost and how does that compare to a Yamaha 4 stroke? Is it as dependable as the USA/Canada model? What does a Tohatsu 2 stroke cost? How are prices on RIBs in the Caribbean compared to the USA?
I can't answer much of that, but google probably could.

I do know that Yamaha hasn't sold 2-strokes in the US for some time now, and the Enduros they sell in the Caribe are 10lbs heavier than the old US 2-strokes. Since you would need to compare reliability across many years with big gaps, it would be difficult to make any statement on reliability between the two.

Costs vary by country and dealer. As does the 4-stroke models. Without doubt, though, the Enduros are much less expensive than the Yamaha 4-stroke equivalents. That is not as true when comparing them with other brands - 2-stroke or not.

RIB's, like engines, also vary in price considerably throughout the Caribe and compared to the US. AB has good prices in Columbia, Venezuela and Panama.

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