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Old 09-08-2015, 15:39   #16
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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Originally Posted by Catamoron View Post
Here is what I experienced time and time again: throughout 7 months of trying to pick a good day to make it to the next anchorage, I would look at GRIB files from passageweather and predict wind and bouyweather and would compare what each one was predicting. I would then make a decision to leave or stay based on if the majority of the predictions were saying. So I was out there studying forecasts and then seeing what was really the conditions during the passage - and while Chris Parker is probably an expert at predicting weather (I guess he is anyway) I'm not sure if he has sailed in any of his predicted forecasts in the last year as much as I have. And from what I've heard, he'll scare the hell out of you about leaving on a particular day more than what was necessary. So I just got in a habit of doing it myself...so by the time I had even heard about Chris Parker I had already been doing it myself for months - so I just continued to trust in my own decisions of when to leave and when to stay. And like I said, most of the passages throughout the entire thorny path were day sails with only about 4 overnighters - and I believe you're pretty safe making your own decisions for such a short time. Any extended crossings and I would hire him too.
Good, at least you were comparing multilple sources and paying attention to what you actually observe locally. Short hops definately improve your odds. On long offshore runs the best you can do is choose your season and hope for the best.

Re fear & Chris Parker. Ive encountered this in other cruisers too. Had a friend whose crew abandonded him because he just would not leave the dock day after day. Chris is hardly an alarmist so I think much of this is self-induced by fretting cruisers who are looking for the perfect window and are maybe a bit less than confident of their skills. And maybe he is playing it a bit conservative for public forecasts. For custom weather routing he will adjust recommendations to boat & crew...sent me through the Windward Passage in NW winds of about 30 knots...YEEHA! What a ride! Deeply reefed and still surfing to 15 knots! Still smile when I think of that run. I've used him for a few custom routes on longer runs over the years and he has nailed it every time (factoring in weather and currents). So, as you are thinking, I would recommend using him for that.


I do agree though that it is ultimately best to make your own educated decisions.
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Old 09-08-2015, 15:54   #17
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

Thank you for sharing your journey with us I have been a subscriber on YouTube since the begging. I have really enjoyed watching you and your family follow your dreams.
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Old 09-08-2015, 17:55   #18
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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Re fear & Chris Parker. Ive encountered this in other cruisers too. Had a friend whose crew abandonded him because he just would not leave the dock day after day. Chris is hardly an alarmist so I think much of this is self-induced by fretting cruisers who are looking for the perfect window and are maybe a bit less than confident of their skills. And maybe he is playing it a bit conservative for public forecasts. For custom weather routing he will adjust recommendations to boat & crew...sent me through the Windward Passage in NW winds of about 30 knots...YEEHA! What a ride! Deeply reefed and still surfing to 15 knots! Still smile when I think of that run. I've used him for a few custom routes on longer runs over the years and he has nailed it every time (factoring in weather and currents). So, as you are thinking, I would recommend using him for that.
Chris Parker is up front about forecasting conservatively - he even explicitly explains this on his website. Generally, his forecasts are 5kts high and for maximum wave heights instead of average. This he learned from everyone sitting in Georgetown Bahamas afraid to go across the harbor without a full seastate, wind and cloud cover forecast - and then complaining when things were just a wee bit more than he said. People are literally asking him for full forecasts to move from Big Majors to Staniel Cay (~1nm across a bathtub, for those unfamiliar with this area) - and frightened to move an inch without a perfectly calm forecast. I have heard people in the Bahamas melt down on the radio with him when a common front goes through their anchorage.

However, he is excellent at learning about one's individual behavior and adjusts his forecasts specifically for you. I am always surprised when we listen to his chickentown forecasts of fear and doom and then get a personal forecast that is much different and reasonable.

Belizesailor - I assume you were heading south in that forecast. I bet you would have a different opinion of that run if you were heading north!

Mark
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Old 09-08-2015, 18:32   #19
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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Chris Parker is up front about forecasting conservatively - he even explicitly explains this on his website. Generally, his forecasts are 5kts high and for maximum wave heights instead of average. This he learned from everyone sitting in Georgetown Bahamas afraid to go across the harbor without a full seastate, wind and cloud cover forecast - and then complaining when things were just a wee bit more than he said. People are literally asking him for full forecasts to move from Big Majors to Staniel Cay (~1nm across a bathtub, for those unfamiliar with this area) - and frightened to move an inch without a perfectly calm forecast. I have heard people in the Bahamas melt down on the radio with him when a common front goes through their anchorage.

However, he is excellent at learning about one's individual behavior and adjusts his forecasts specifically for you. I am always surprised when we listen to his chickentown forecasts of fear and doom and then get a personal forecast that is much different and reasonable.

Belizesailor - I assume you were heading south in that forecast. I bet you would have a different opinion of that run if you were heading north!

Mark
Absolutely Southbound, Acklins to Port Antonio, Jamaica. Would have anchored in Guantanamo and delt with the flack, before trying that N bound!

I've also observed the same behavior you refer to above with some cruisers in the Bahamas. Seems to be really prevalent around Club Georgetown.
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Old 09-08-2015, 18:38   #20
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

I'm a long time subscriber to Chris and a daily downloader of gribs via SSB as well as a user of whatever WX info we can get. Mostly this does not include inet info as it's not easily and cheaply available most of the places we go. Anyone who does not listen to Chris - especially now that he also is running evening nets - is sticking their heads in the sand. Listening is free. Why not? If nothing else it's good for entertainment: "I want to go from Marsh Harbour to Hope Town. How's it lookin'?"

Congrats to Catchin Rays on reaching the SE Carib. Fair winds and stay safe.

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Old 10-08-2015, 09:12   #21
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

Thank you for sharing all you have learned on this fascinating journey of yours. My husband and I have enjoyed every detail of your posts and learned so much from your first hand contemporaneous reporting of life on the sea and preparing for life on the sea, thank you for taking the time to include us all on your journey and to share the education you have gained along the way with us as well. Wishing you the best as the adventure continues....
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Old 10-08-2015, 14:29   #22
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

I tried not wearing shoes on my boat and stubbed my toe on a chainplate after roughly 30 seconds.

Now I always wear toed shoes.
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Old 10-08-2015, 15:19   #23
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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I tried not wearing shoes on my boat and stubbed my toe on a chainplate after roughly 30 seconds.

Now I always wear toed shoes.
Yep, broke my little toe 3 times in bare feet. Bent out 90 degrees to t he foot. OUCH! No flip flops for me, any trace of wetness and you twist your ankle or slip and gouge your foot.
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Old 10-08-2015, 16:12   #24
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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Yep, broke my little toe 3 times in bare feet. Bent out 90 degrees to t he foot. OUCH! No flip flops for me, any trace of wetness and you twist your ankle or slip and gouge your foot.
It took you three times to learn?

Yep, one of our boat rules is that everyone wears full cover shoes when underway. A simple toe injury can ruin your enjoyment for many days.

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Old 10-08-2015, 16:20   #25
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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It took you three times to learn?

Yep, one of our boat rules is that everyone wears full cover shoes when underway. A simple toe injury can ruin your enjoyment for many days.

Dave
Yep it did! In fact I seem to "relearn" every few years! The problem is a few years goes by and I think "what the heck I'll just jump off and turn that water hose on...."
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Old 10-08-2015, 19:08   #26
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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It took you three times to learn?

Yep, one of our boat rules is that everyone wears full cover shoes when underway. A simple toe injury can ruin your enjoyment for many days.

Dave
Yeah, I always tell students to wear full toe shoes and I normally do to when teaching (and on an off of lots of different boats)...but don't wear them when crusining...fortunately my decks are pretty clean, but I've had some spectacular toe breaks on other boats.
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Old 10-08-2015, 19:17   #27
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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Nice read, well done, seems like you learned a lot along the way


Post copied below.....

Friday, August 7, 2015
10 Things I learned from Sailing the Thorny Path
When we set sail on December 30, 2014 we had no idea what we were doing and had only sailed a total of 3 times equaling about 4 hours of sailing time total. We didn't even know where we would end up because we had no idea if our untested boat would even get us there - so we just kept going....all the way down to Trinidad.

And now, after 2,100 nautical miles, I can safely say that it continues to be an adventure of a lifetime and what we learned from it has only been experienced by a small group of sailors - and even a smaller group if you consider we sailed the entire Thorny Path in our first season.

So I thought I'd pass on a few tid-bits of information that I observed along the way - things that can be useful information or just an odd observation. So here goes my top 10 things we learned on our first season sailing the Thorny Path.

1. Even salty sailors worry a lot. Throughout the trip, we would occasionally meet other sailors - and got to be good friends with a select few - and it always surprised us to find out that some of them worry about weather and passages just as much or more than we did. Some of them wouldn't do any passage without the company of another boat. We actually did all of our night passages alone - we left when I thought the weather looked good - even the big one - Dominican Republic to Puerto Rico, a 47 hour passage over the course of two days that we were completely alone. Would it have been nice to have another boat within radio shot? Of course, but I was never in the habit of finding a buddy boat - we were loners just about the entire time and only hooked up with other sailors on a couple of day passages because they were our friends and just happened to be going the same way on the same day. We were confident in our boat and our equipment and my ability to determine when the weather looked good enough to leave. We were either good at picking a weather window or we just had dumb luck - probably a little of each as we never had any problems or disasters on any of our passages, day or night.

2. Some put a little too much stock in weather guru Chris Parker. Now I don't have any particular problem with Chris Parker and I also think that any information is good information when it comes to making and planning for a passage. But the total amount of times I actually listened to his broadcasts were exactly zero. I'm not sure that I even picked him up on our SSB because I just didn't wake up that early. What I don't understand is that GRIB files are rampant out here and if you have sailed any amount of time at all, it was easy to tell by a quick glance if it was a good time to set sail or not - I really didn't need someone else telling me when to go - it was obvious. Trust in your boat and trust in the knowledge you've built up as the miles continue to pass under you and use all the information you obtain to make an informed decision for yourself. But I would advise against depending on him too much but rather take in all your resources and make your own decision. But there is an exception: if I were going to make a massive offshore passage that included more than 3 or 4 days at sea, I would definitely hire him to help me decide when to leave, but not for anything under that.

3. Sailing east against the trades really sucks. Its called the Thorny Path for a reason. And really, I should be saying motor-sailing east because that is what you do most of the time. I recently had an idiot that left a comment on my YouTube channel that told me we must not be "real sailors" because we didn't seem to enjoy the trip, just the destination - "for real sailors, its the trip, not the destination" he said. And for anybody to come at us with this stupid and over-used saying - its obvious that person does not live on a sailboat. For all the sailors and cruisers we met along the way, none said they were having a blast as we pounded to the east day after day. And for the sailors that do love sailing - those people go out on the weekend and sail around the bay and do it for "the love of sailing." Those people don't travel the thorny path or live on a sailboat. But don't get me wrong, when we have sailed at 8 knots with a sweet 22 knot wind and 4 foot seas...its really the greatest feeling, and something that has to be experienced for yourself. But that is not what the thorny path is all about - its about surviving it and has little to do with enjoying it.

4. People have a tenancy to overstate the size of the seas. Not that I've ran into too many sailors along the way that did this, but I read a lot from other sailors that seem to do this quite a bit. We've seen our fair share of rough weather - although we haven't crossed the Atlantic or the Pacific (which I hear can get pretty hairy) we have sailed through a lot of different types of conditions. And the first thing I can tell you is that there is good reason a lot of cruisers stop at George Town, Bahamas - because by the time you make the crossing to the DR, you might just find out what a 3 meter wave really looks like. And if you were lucky enough to make it to Saint Martin unscathed, you will most definitely find out on your way south to Grenada at some time or another. We've heard time and time again that the seas "were not properly predicted - they are always bigger." I saw video evidence of what another sailor called "12 foot seas" where the nose of the boat wasn't even getting covered with the oncoming sea and I have to wonder if they really know what they're in for when the actually see a 12 foot wave. A two meter swell at 7 seconds is still a big wave...bigger than you can imagine. In fact, I bet that when you see one you'll swear it was better than 10 feet - but it wasn't...what you witnessed was a 6 foot wave. Believe me, when you see a wave bigger than 3 meters, you will know it - it will throw your boat for a loop. Just refer to the cute little video I posted of a decent sized wave hitting us on our beam - that one, we think, was somewhere around 9 feet or so and it took our 23 foot beam catamaran for a ride.

5. Sailing at night is not as bad as you would think. Well, I kinda went back and forth on this one....I almost titled it "Sailing at night is pretty scary" but when I reflected on our night passages, I realized that it was never as bad as I was expecting. As the night crossing approached, I was always a little nervous about it. But after we'd get out there and hoist the sails, we'd watch the sun set and our eyes would quickly adjust. And if the moon was shining, we could see just about everything - but on the flip side, if the moon wasn't shining it can make the experience quite a bit more intense. But in the morning, after we had made it through just fine, I always ended up saying, "that wasn't that bad." Although tame seas, a good moon, and mild winds really help to make a great overnight passage - so picking a good weather window is really important to a safe and enjoyable overnighter.

6. Sailing really isn't that hard after all. Sailing may seem like driving a car to some of the more experienced sailors but to the non-sailor the thought can be overwhelming. I get questions all the time about how much experience we had before we set sail and I get the impression its folks just like us that are wanting to leave the rat-race and sail off into the sunset but have never even stepped on a sailboat before. But rest assured, anybody can do it. If you are diligent enough to research the dream of sailing, you have all the tools needed to learn how to do it...and even learn how to do it on the fly.

7. Grenada is surprisingly awesome. Who would have thought? You hear about Grenada all the time, but never as a vacation destination. Its always where you go to be safe from hurricanes. Everybody talks about St. Lucia and the BVI's but Grenada is never mentioned in the same breath. But we had the best time there and had a great time hiking, touring and snorkeling and would recommend it as a place to consider for your next vacation.

8. Monohulls do just as much motoring as Catamarans. There's a big misconception that cats are the only ones motoring to their destinations but this theory doesn't come from the land of reality. We've had a lot of conversations with many monohull sailors from George Town to Grenada and compared notes with a lot of them - and the reports disprove this myth. In fact, some owners even motor-sailed on days that we were able to just sail. I don't understand it - wind is wind and it actually takes less wind to move a lighter boat so I'm just not sure where this misconception ever came about - but believe me, don't buy a monohull just because you think you'll be able to sail when cats are motoring - it just doesn't happen.

9. You don't need near as many clothes and shoes as you would think (this one is for the women only). We tried to tell my wife every time she was packing her suitcases for another trip to the boat, that she didn't need that much stuff - but she didn't listen. And then when we got to Trinidad, she gathered up all the stuff she didn't need to take back to the states - she needed two gigantic checked bags just to carry it and I'm still not sure she got it all. When they tell you all you need is a few bathing suits, a couple of shirts, and one pair of flip-flops - it really is the truth.

10. I really, really love solar and wind power. We have 1024 watts of solar power on Catchin' Rays and a 400 watt wind generator and together they produce enough energy to power all our refrigeration, navigation, and entertainment equipment with ease. We'd go weeks on end without ever having to run anything else to recharge our batteries. In fact, we'd go so long without running our generator that it would loose its prime and we'd have to burp the air out of its fuel line. Living off the sun and wind slowly turns into an addiction - I dream of more solar, more wind, and more battery storage and I can now easily understand the people on land that live "off the grid" and it is definitely something I will take with me when we leave sailing completely - whether it will be filling up the roof of our future motorhome or if it will be integrated into our home - it will be part of our life in some form or another.

So there you go...a few things I learned on our Thorny Path adventure. Maybe next season I'll post something on what we learned from sailing west from Trinidad....but that will be for next season.
A good read.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 10-08-2015, 20:14   #28
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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Thank you for sharing all you have learned on this fascinating journey of yours. My husband and I have enjoyed every detail of your posts and learned so much from your first hand contemporaneous reporting of life on the sea and preparing for life on the sea, thank you for taking the time to include us all on your journey and to share the education you have gained along the way with us as well. Wishing you the best as the adventure continues....
Thanks so much for this - its nice to know that other people are getting something out of our adventure. Soon we'll be back down there to continue sailing off into the sunsets.
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Old 11-08-2015, 07:31   #29
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

You are one my inspirations for my 5 year plan . You do great work on your videos.
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Old 09-09-2015, 10:46   #30
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Re: 10 Things I learned by sailing the Thorny Path

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You are one my inspirations for my 5 year plan . You do great work on your videos.
Thank you so much for this comment - we're glad to be one of your inspirations with obtaining your dream and we wish you the very best luck in achieving your goal....and stay tuned, episode 11 should be uploaded within the week.
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