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Old 16-07-2012, 08:33   #106
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
With all the difficulties (and there are a few) considered it kinda makes me think harder about cruising with a guard dog it could end up being a very real option.
Then YOUR peace of mind is at the expense of the peace of mind of ALL of your fellow cruisers, when the dog goes off at every dinghy that goes by... Bad way to be safe! Everyone will hate you...

Best way: Avoid such places. We went to Bocas thinking to ex pat to Panama... Lots of perks for retired folks. It has great anchoring options, and diving as well. No hurricanes either. Just more rain than the great flood, with lightning like you've never seen! Thing is, that the town is the filthy / nastiest place that I ever saw. ALL of the tourist motels, homes, & businesses, had their drain fields, 1" (if that) under ground. The whole place looked and smelled like ****! Since then, the crime just goes up and up.

These things change all of the time, but I suss out an area before going there, and stay as long as allowed, IF its still fun, or UNTIL IT BECOMES LESS SAFE!

Cruising "smart", is cruising safe. There are still a lot of wonderful places out there, (Bocas is not one of them), we just have to do out homework first.

M.
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Old 16-07-2012, 17:53   #107
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

I think that the poisoned booze is a fine idea - implementation can be a bit tricky. Some years ago I had suggested the same thing for inexpensively booby-trapping a commercial ship transiting areas frequented by Somali pirates. If the captain and crew are in a secure hidden room with the ship locked on course and an automatic distress beacon running - the pirates are going to be running around the ship looking for hostages. They could easily find a permanently locked cabinet in the mess hall which contained laced liquor - and likely some would pause to imbibe a bit. This would reduce the number of pirates to contend with.

For the bleeding hearts who worry about a 16 year old thief who has broken into someone's home - he has chosen to break in and steal, and he is likely armed with a knife or machete with which to wreak mayhem should he be confronted - and much more likely to use violence than a more experienced thief. Not a 'child' any more - and what is he likely to be doing at 18 or 25? This is just nipping a life of crime in the bud.

I hadn't though of white powder poison though - brilliant! If the authorities find it you can simply explain that you had a rat infestation in the past and the high potency poison was for them - and it is in the safe because it is so dangerous you need to keep it secure. That miscreants will make another assumption about what might be in the baggie is their problem and likely you need not provide any explanation unless they invite you to the party.

Some years ago in the mid seventies, I tried to get the LA authorities (LAPD/Sheriff/FBI) to intervene in the rapidly growing crack cocaine distribution system by introducing 'faux crack'. This was a chemical called Adamcite (sp?) which was used in military riot control agents mixed with tear gas and dispersed by burning - tested reasonably safe (nonlethal). Selling this on the black market would likely greatly discourage users from trying crack again - the military used it as an additive to induce vomiting so foes could not use gas masks. The experience is memorable as after vomiting everything in their stomach, the victim would continue to have the dry heaves for another 3-4 hours. Wolves learn in one session not to prey on sheep who's flesh had been laced with a chemical that made them sick (used as a method to control predition by wolves on sheep so they could be reintroduced without sheep herders shooting them). I figured hat the distribution network could be somewhat disrupted and word would get around that crack makes you sick - and that people who got a dose would likely never use again. Naturally this approach fell on deaf ears.
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Old 16-07-2012, 18:44   #108
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

Even better than poison, rohipnol, GHB. The date rape drug. They would be totally conscious and completely incapacitated. No one dies, and assailants are easily subdued. I didn't even think about the possibility of this before.

Using a date rape drug to subdue a rapist... kinda funny
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Old 16-07-2012, 21:39   #109
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

And here i am planning my departure from Rio Dulce to Bocas del Toro because i am tired of all the theft and violence on the Rio and Golfete and neighboring Honduras and Belize (this will only get worse). It seems like you need to stay out of sight (your masts and sails) when moving and switch off running lights at night (God help you with a full moon)...unless you are just prepared to give the pirates just exactly what they deserve... and then clean up the mess.
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Old 16-07-2012, 21:43   #110
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

this couple was at anchor, you are probably ok sailing with your running lights on offshore. Just lock things on your deck and close your hatches at anchor, or get a dog. There is a large cruiser community here in Bocas and they are on their toes right now.

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Old 16-07-2012, 23:10   #111
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

My Thai wife, Sara and me Bill (Big Gringo) will be visiting Panama for two weeks and staying in Santiago with friends for the Feria? (town fiesta) on the 25th. We also are seriously considering Pensionado as our friends are up there in the gobierno. I hope to meet some of you around the thirtieth, at Bocas.

But all this talk gives me pause. You all are worked up over this and some of you either have not cruised a great deal in the real world or just been very lucky so far. Being captain or skipper of a vessel with tripulantes gives you a solemn obligation to Protect those souls with every means. Prevention is always preferable to delayed reaction and You Must Have a Plan in mind and ensure that all aboard are sure of their part. Guns don't have to come into it at all. (But they work like nothing else can.)

I've sailed with my friend Keith (not a gunman) on VaqueroIII and it would be pure insanity to invade the sanctity of his vessel, gun or no gun.Nicest and loveliest bloke in Christendom-but also decisive when "all else fails."

You must resist with all your heart and soul, all your wiles and all your indignant fury. Gasoline douche and a cigarette lighter can quiet the most savage beast and can terrify without the need for conflagration. Throw an open jug of fuel in the panga and a fusee and good bye scumbags! You may die from a gunshot but your people will have a much better chance to live on. (When a boatload of cretins go bump against your hull in the middle of the night, they are not paying a social call)...

In general bullies are ALWAYS cowards and ONLY understand pain or the certainty of death. Useful weapons are all around your vessel, if you think "out of the box). Joshua on Spray ran into the same stuff we are facing, on his own, and persevered.

I often sleep (lightly) up in my center cockpit when in a dicey anchorage and
have no doubt I will fight like hell to keep pirates off my boat. If they shoot me, my crew tosses the flare...I agree with the previous poster who also favors tasing these hopheads instead of killing them. It is a terrible thing to deprive one of existence but not at all bad when those are his intentions towards you and yours

Another option is having women abandon ship through the hatches and into the water in times of attack. No sense in everybody being at the mercy of drunken desperadoes.

my $0.02 worth
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Old 17-07-2012, 00:00   #112
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

youmeandthed wrote "Even better than poison, rohipnol, GHB. The date rape drug. They would be totally conscious and completely incapacitated. No one dies, and assailants are easily subdued." ==> An excellent thought - how fast does this stuff work? Can one legally obtain it? The authorities will likely think you have nefarious intentions toward the buxom young women of their country. But to add to the irony, when the miscreants wake they will not even remember what happened so word will not spread of this clever trap. For the private cruiser I agree that it is much better than poison - many of which are hard to come by and often of dubious effect. This might likely have other uses to subdue the thugs in various dens of iniquity - especially those where excessive drinking is common - or gift some local cut-throat gang anonymously (i.e. make the bottle easy to steal) and alert the local police that there is easy (legal) loot to be had for the taking. Surely a boon to the local under-equipped police - after the raid they will have better weapons and everyone will eat better for a while.
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Old 17-07-2012, 00:16   #113
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

SageofSalem wrote "I agree with the previous poster who also favors tasing these hopheads instead of killing them." ==> The problem with tasers is that they will only take one foe at a time as they are a single shot option; while the problem with stun guns is you have to have your hand essentially against the torso of the thug - not a good idea if he is armed with a knife.

The other option is something the police use called a riot baton; it is about the size of a baton and the forward part is also electrified so it shocks if grasped. I had considered mounting one of these on a 12' length of schedule 80 plastic pipe (moving the battery pack to the butt for balance). Such a device would have enough reach to stun at a distance - perhaps from the darkness of an unlit companionway to a thug contemplating if they should enter the dark maw down below, or used during the boarding process (both scenarios requiring some alarm or alertness). during normal times it could simply be tied to the ceiling of the companionway with the business end concealed by a cloth bag or some such. Taser does make a 12 gauge shotshell which flies to the target and then tases it - backed up by some beanbag rounds perhaps. Not sure how the authorities would accept nonlethal ammunition for a riot gun as it could still fire real ammunition if needed.
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Old 17-07-2012, 03:12   #114
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

How about keeping alert, not drawing attention, projecting polite deterrence, and not stimulating a criminal's desires by presenting a plainly easy victim?

It is noticeable that the attacks reported, as well as the deck-thefts, occur at night. It is likely the crims are not total morons, and either notices you ashore or cased out you and your boat.

If you keep alert for folks that are examining you, you can nod and smile and look them in the eye....they will know you've noticed them and you have a personal connection now, as well as a description (you don't need to memorize a complete APB like Agent X, but you will notice if you see that face again.) Careful looking folks in the eye, though...in non-western cultures, you may have just challenged them or insulted them. Careful for doing things that to us are innocuous but offensive to others, for example showing a Thai your footsoles (or is it the Karen...I forget). The thumb & forefinger might mean "OK" to an American or an Aussie, but to a German you just called him an a§§hole. Do that to a cop here and you're headed for a guaranteed fine and perhaps worse if you mouth gets away from you. A smile and a wave or a nod can be simple friendliness to the nicer folk out there, and a silent shot across the bows of the not-so-nice who are looking for a rube to rob. Visible precautions that don't attract normal attention but alert criminals that this boat is not unaware of security won't make you a laughing stock or suspicious. Be the grey man, the nice man, but not the stupid man. When you may think you may be in hammerland, try not to look so much like a loose nail.....

That way your backup plans are less likely to be used, and you're less likely to find yourself doing the Potomac Two-Step in front of a hardnose judge wondering whether to put you in the slammer with Charlie Manson, or Hannibal Lecter.
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Old 17-07-2012, 04:06   #115
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BHUT JOLOKIA

If you can manage to have even a small quantity of this exotic chilli, it might solve a lot of problems. Your attacker may not be anticipating this --- yes, the world's most deadliest chilli powder now being used for anti terror ops. It has a scoville heat unit rating of over a 1,000,000 enough to bring a low life thug to your knees. All you need to do is toss a fistful in his direction and you run for cover (wet towels). After he falls down, disarm him, and apply some in his 'behind'. Believe me, he will never be at peace with himself for day's to come. :-)

Here is the content I copied from the site ---


"Bhut Jolokia, Ghost Chillies

Bhut Jolokia, the smallest amount of Bhut Jolokia can flavour a sauce so intensely it’s barely edible. Taking a small bite will cause watering eyes and a runny nose.

The world’s hottest chilli is the Bhut Jolokia also known as Bih Jolokia (ghost Chilli) originating in Assam in North East India. It is the records holder with an official Scoville heat rating (SHU) of 1,001,304 SHU twice that of the previous record holder, the Red Savina.

A SHU stands for Scoville Heat Unit and is the amount of water needed before the chilli heat is undetectable. One drop of the Bhut Jolokia extract needs a million drops of water.

The Bhut Jolokia chilli has been highly treasured in Assam for centuries but was unknown in the West. Seven years ago a scientist, R.K.R Singh, working at the Indian government’s Defence Research Laboratory in Tezpur in Assam, decided to look at this locally prized chilli and sent samples of the Bhut Jolokia for analysis. The amazing results were submitted to a scientific journal and aroused the interest of The Chile Pepper Institute (CPI) at New Mexico State University.

Very shortly after, in 2001, the Institute received seed of the Bhut Jolokia from a member who had collected it while visiting India. Dr Paul Bosland of the CPI grew the Bhut Jolokia from seed in the desert climate of Southern New Mexico and confirmed its incredible heat, culminating in the Record Award for the hottest chilli in the world. The analysis revealed that it possessed an extremely high heat level indeed, a whopping 1,001,304 Scoville Heat Units.

Further corroboration of the heat level came from Frontal Agritech in Assam who had their locally grown Bhut Jolokia chillies HPLC-tested and reported a value of 1,041,427 Scoville Heat Units, giving two independent results for Bhut Jolokia with no significant variation between them.

The sole exporter of the Bhut Jolokia from Assam is Frontal Agritech. In Assam this deadly hot chilli is treated with immense respect. At Frontal Agritech, employees wear goggles, face masks, head covers and protective clothing to deal with the chillies. Ananta Saikia, the owner of Frontal Agritech Ltd has been quoted as saying that one chilli can last his family for a week.

The raw chilli has a strong but pleasant fresh vegetable smell. Cooked in a curry it imparts perfume-like sweetness to all the other ingredients in addition to a fiery heat. Dried, the chilli changes character again with a further intensification of taste and aroma.

We offer Bhut Jolokia seeds direct from The Chile Pepper Institute and are proud to of been the first and still the best supplier of Bhut Jolokia and Chocolate Bhut Jolokia seeds direct from Frontal Agritech, who are in turn the only exporter from Assam.

This is truly a unique chilli and seeds are scarce, and seeds with proven provenance are even scarcer still. Our seeds come from certificated and heat tested stock."

.......
.......
.......

Indian Military Fights Terrorism with World's Spiciest Chili
Eating The Hottest Pepper in the World, The Bhut Jolokia (Naga Ghost Chili)
see larger video
sourced by Jacob Zinn


The “bhut jolokia”—the world’s spiciest chili pepper—is now the Indian military’s newest weapon against terrorism.

Defence officials are using the red hot chili pepper to make “chili grenades” as a substitute for tear gas to immobilize suspects. Officials are also hoping to make an aerosol spray using the pepper for women to use against attackers and for police use in mob situations.

While the potent pepper is regularly eaten, its spice can leave a bad taste in the mouths of terrorists when used as a weapon. The military hopes to use its strong, pungent scent to choke terrorists and force them out of their hideouts.

The chili grenade has been found fit for use after trials in Indian defence laboratories, a fact confirmed by scientists at the Defence Research and Development Organization,” said defence spokesman Col. R. Kalia.
Source: thestar.com

Bhut Jolokia Too Hot to Handle

The bhut jolokia, from the Assam region of northeast India, earned its world’s spiciest chili title when it was officially added to the Guinness World Records in 2007. It is used to settle stomach aches and, despite it’s 5-alarm flavour, combat the country’s summer heat.

Also known as the “ghost chili,” the bhut jolokia measures more than 1,000,000 Scoville units.

The Scoville scale measures the piquance (hotness and spiciness) of a food by the amount of capsaicin, an active component of chili peppers. Classic Tabasco measures between 2,500 and 5,000 Scoville units.

0 – Bell Pepper
100-500 – Pimento
500-2,500 – Peppadew
2,500-8,000 – Jalapeņo
10,000-23,000 – Serrano Pepper
30,000-50,000 – Cayenne Pepper
50,000-100,000 – Bird’s Eye Chili
100,000-350,000 – Habanero Chili
350,000-580,000 – Red Savina Habanero
855,000-1,050,000 – Bhut Jolokia
5,000,000-5,300,000 – Law Enforcement Grade Pepper Spray
15,000,000-16,000,000 – Pure Capsaicin


Continue reading at NowPublic.com: Indian Chili Bomb: Military Uses Bhut Jolokia Pepper vs Terrorism | NowPublic News Coverage http://www.nowpublic.com/world/india...#ixzz20sCef0bv
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Old 17-07-2012, 05:15   #116
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

So it would be no Jolokian matter to have it in your Bhut, is that what the gist is?

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Old 17-07-2012, 09:26   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coops
So it would be no Jolokian matter to have it in your Bhut, is that what the gist is?

Coops.
LoL. You summed it well.
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Old 17-07-2012, 09:35   #118
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

Careful handling that stuff. I will never forget the first time I was cooking up a pot of chili and decided to chop up several habanero ( Scot Bonnets) to add to it. In the middle of this, I needed to visit the men's room to download some beer.

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Old 17-07-2012, 09:50   #119
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

Walking thru the boonies of Guam one will encounter the Boonie pepper,a small bush about a foot tall with very tiny peppers..If you just touch or rub against this little pepper you will fill very very bad for a while...one pepper about a 1/2 inch long is all it takes to bring a grown man to his knees...They say the brown tree snake came to Guam from a cargo ship out of India,I think the boonie pepper got there the same way so it might be the same one that is being discussed here...now how do we get the bad guys to eat it while they are robbing us...DVC
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Old 17-07-2012, 10:56   #120
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

a dog would be the first line of defense. all you need is a little feist to give you the heads up. i think a pistol with a suppressor for close work is pretty much a must have in this day and age.
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