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Old 09-07-2012, 21:19   #16
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

[QUOTE=Don Lucas;987152][QUOTE=Celestialsailor;987138]

I agree! Hope you are not suggesting with my partial quote that I was suggesting otherwise! QUOTE]

Not really...you know me...just stirring it up... I just wanted people to think that it's not all sunsets and happy locals.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:23   #17
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

so, as usual, a story about violencia in foriegn cruising grounds goes off into tangents of violence and guns...rofl

why not just drop the arrogance and shininess of possessions and braggardly ways, and cruise bland, as folks used to do --covering brightwork with latex paint --non gloss-- to prevent being shiniest item in area and most inviting with sugar scoop transoms which invite uninvited company in weird hours??

shiny attracts rats. rats live on two legs and go to that which is attractive to them.
if you flaunt wealth and possessions in front of folks who do not make as much as your coffee costs in one year, then you are inviting trouble.

get real and prevent trouble from happening to you.
dont be shiney
dont show off your stuff in public
dont flaunt wealth in impoverished places.
dont wear jewelry or other adornments--they attract rats--shiney.
besafe ad know what and who is around you at all times.


we all know how hard ye worked to obtain your prize--dont let your pride go before your fall--ugly it down some to avoid being a target.
in the eyes of others who do not make nearly as much as your provisions cost in a year of their hard work, do not brag by being shiny and gorgeous --all boat owners are wealthy beyond anyone else's means--and by being proud of your shiny boat, you are feeding this cycle. be safe.

the actual income here in mexico of hard labor and boat workers--200 pesos daily. peso=from 11-14 per dollar, us. do the math. that is for well paid hands. most are less.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:41   #18
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

It is sad when you try use the forum to pretend you have all this bravado and could do anything different. Ever been woken up in the middle of the night in a foreign country by two drunk black guys waiving a gun in your face and yelling out stuff in SPanish and broken english?

I answered their radio call at 3am. I was their neighbour in the anchorage for a month before we decided to move into a marina while my wife went home for a month. Bocas is one of the safer spots in the western Caribbean, but these incidents happen everywhere in the world. The couple had one of the nicest boats in the anchorage, there were about 20 boats there. It was saturday night (party night), and the assailants are well known to the police.

The presidential plane landed here yesterday, so there are some important people who dropped what they were doing to come deal with this issue.

I would have to say that using a gun is something stupid people would do. Just spike a bottle of rum with poison, or keep a baggy of lethal white powder with your money. You will have a couple of corpses lying on your floor before they even tie you up.

We had our dog on our boat and he would bark at everything in that anchorage. no one ever came close to our boat. It is a very sad and scary situation. The couple is very brave and doing well. I talked with them yesterday. I think they just want some space and safety for a bit while they regain their senses.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:48   #19
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

From the article:

American Couple Brutally Assaulted And Robbed On Their Sailboat Near Isla Colon, Bocas del Toro, Panama - Panama Guide


A Possible Earlier, Related Attempt? There is a report that some would be assailants - possibly these same two men - tried to board another sailboat at 10:30 pm last night, on Saturday 7 July 2012. Reported these would-be victims were able to "repel" that boarding attempt, and nothing else happened. I suspect the DIJ detectives will be investigating and comparing the details to determine or confirm if the two events are related. It seems like too much of a coincidence to think they might not be related in some way.


This is an example of why the "let them board and take your posessions" just does not work. You don't know the intentions of the people who are boarding you. Actually, I lied. You do know the intentions of someone forcefully boarding your boat. BAD intentions.

I know many on here hate guns, but I think an incident like this could be avoided if there were resistance. Could have used bear spray and fought them overboard. I say that for those who dislike guns. I would have shot so that I were not the victim.


Nobody wants to be a victim. There is a difference between an active victim and a passive victim

Active victim. Puts up resistance, but still looses

Passive victim. Puts up no resistance and is at the mercy of the person with bad intentions. When you become a passive victim, you could be voluntarily be giving up your life. The sad part is that you don't know until it is to late.

Your odds are better when putting up resistance that you will not become a victim!
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:50   #20
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

i wasnt awakened by a gun in my face, i was object of attmepted theft in another mexican city /port at midnight.
i stopped an entire ring of nocturnal thefts without violence. if this can be done, modabedda.
if it is gonna happen to me, it wont be because i look shiney or flaunt my stuff in public, as so many cruisers love doing.

be safe and dont show off and try to fly under the radar of the thieves.

is not bravado--is SURVIVAL.

cannot see difference--dictionary should be able to help ye discern ....

victim is victim no matter what color ye paint it... do not be a victim. is SURVIVAL. kinda like walking thru compton/watts at 2100.......if ye do it without looking the victim, ye can manage to do it safely. i know--btdt. even at midnite. isnt magic--is not being a victim. here ARE ways to pull it off without weaponry.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:58   #21
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

Well the couple is bruised and a bit violated, but alive. So I think they came out ok. A guy freaked out on the rio dulce a few years ago and they chopped him up. Who is to say you can draw a gun while half asleep faster than the bad guy who is already pointing one at you.

Active victims die.

The two boats and the two events were seperate. One was a panga, and the other was a cayuko.

I agree with don't flash it, or even better keep a bunch of stuff on the deck that isn't worth anything, and a dog that looks mean.

By the time they are inside your boat with a gun, it is about getting out alive, trying to be a cowboy will get you killed or maybe they wont kill you, but shoot you and as you lay their dying they will rape your wife. Get real, the real tactic is to avoid getting boarded by looking like you don't own anything, have a dog that barks (scares the locals like you wouldn't believe), lock up your hatches, and keep some poison that looks like drugs or alcohol on the boat.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:04   #22
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

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Originally Posted by youmeandthed View Post
It is sad when you try use the forum to pretend you have all this bravado and could do anything different. Ever been woken up in the middle of the night in a foreign country by two drunk black guys waiving a gun in your face and yelling out stuff in SPanish and broken english?

I answered their radio call at 3am. I was their neighbour in the anchorage for a month before we decided to move into a marina while my wife went home for a month. Bocas is one of the safer spots in the western Caribbean, but these incidents happen everywhere in the world. The couple had one of the nicest boats in the anchorage, there were about 20 boats there. It was saturday night (party night), and the assailants are well known to the police.

The presidential plane landed here yesterday, so there are some important people who dropped what they were doing to come deal with this issue.

I would have to say that using a gun is something stupid people would do. Just spike a bottle of rum with poison, or keep a baggy of lethal white powder with your money. You will have a couple of corpses lying on your floor before they even tie you up.

We had our dog on our boat and he would bark at everything in that anchorage. no one ever came close to our boat. It is a very sad and scary situation. The couple is very brave and doing well. I talked with them yesterday. I think they just want some space and safety for a bit while they regain their senses.
I have a dog. Great warning device, but I would not bet my life that my German Shephard would proceed forward after being hit or having something thrown at her. She has not been tested and passed, so therefore, she is just a warning device until further testing. Like a gun. I hope that she never has to be tested.

A gun is not for everyone. I have been tested and passed and feel much safer if a bad situation were to arise. This was my job in the Marine Corps File:Marine Force Recon -001-.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You stated:
"I would have to say that using a gun is something stupid people would do. Just spike a bottle of rum with poison, or keep a baggy of lethal white powder with your money. You will have a couple of corpses lying on your floor before they even tie you up."

I would state that is the silliest thing that I have heard on here. Seriously, how would you handle, store and lace your money with this deadly powder! I don't see that as a rational defense. What if they decide to kill you before they drink all of your rum?

My heart goes out to them. I could not even imagine being victimized like they have. Not everyone in the world is nice. It is a fact. You don't know who is nice or not. Protecting yourself is something that we must all actively do. Just painting the shiny stuff won't protect you once someone is on your boat.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:12   #23
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

"Well the couple is bruised and a bit violated, but alive. So I think they came out ok."

They are far from ok. Their lives will be forever changed. As a couple, they will have a lot of challenges ahead of them. Possible forever. They lived, but this will probably haunt them for life. That is a serious sentence.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:13   #24
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

Well, they like to drink all your booze and do all your drugs in front of you before they rape you.

Also, dogs instinctually will defend their master. I have an English Staffie who is super nice, but down here the local are scared of him, so they go to steal from boats that don't have a dog. The nice thing is, the dog barks at them during the day when they are checking scoping out the boats. You can't go around shooting a gun during the day.

Also if you have an undeclared firearm in a foreign country and you get caught shooting someone, even in self defence, enjoy your stay in jail. Most countries frown upon vigilantly justice, especially from visitors. How would you feel if a panamanian shot an american on american soil, even if it was self defence it would obviously be the visitors fault.

Having a small bag of poison that looks like cocaine in with your money is not difficult. Actually it would be easier than dealing with a gun on a boat.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:16   #25
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

Quote:
They are far from ok. Their lives will be forever changed. As a couple, they will have a lot of challenges ahead of them. Possible forever. They lived, but this will probably haunt them for life. That is a serious sentence.
I talked to them yesterday. They are tough people, and I'm sure they will be ok. I'm sure they will have issues to deal with over time, but they are alive and that provides them the time to recover.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:20   #26
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

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Well, they like to drink all your booze and do all your drugs in front of you before they rape you.

Also, dogs instinctually will defend their master. I have an English Staffie who is super nice, but down here the local are scared of him, so they go to steal from boats that don't have a dog. The nice thing is, the dog barks at them during the day when they are checking scoping out the boats. You can't go around shooting a gun during the day.

Also if you have an undeclared firearm in a foreign country and you get caught shooting someone, even in self defence, enjoy your stay in jail. Most countries frown upon vigilantly justice, especially from visitors. How would you feel if a panamanian shot an american on american soil, even if it was self defence it would obviously be the visitors fault.

Having a small bag of poison that looks like cocaine in with your money is not difficult. Actually it would be easier than dealing with a gun on a boat.
"Having a small bag of poison that looks like cocaine in with your money is not difficult. Actually it would be easier than dealing with a gun on a boat."

How do you declare this biological weapon? Tell them it's anthrax? Customs would either arrest you for having cocaine or for having a deadly powder.


"Most countries frown upon vigilantly justice, especially from visitors. How would you feel if a panamanian shot an american on american soil, even if it was self defence it would obviously be the visitors fault. "
I would not frown upon self defense. Vigilante justice is different than what I am talking about.

vigilante justice= Having the crime committed and going after the perpetrator after the fact.

self defense= preventing the crime from happening in the heat of the moment.


"Well, they like to drink all your booze and do all your drugs in front of you before they rape you."

Hopefully. Hopefully, one of your friends does not drink this. Probably much more of a chance of accidental discharge than a gun.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:22   #27
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

even ptsd is treatable. death is not treatable. the folks did ok and good. but is also good to try to avoid the problem in first place---under radar.
random boardings happen in every country--things that LOOK like drugs will be cause for removal of your boat from your possession and that, in a 3rd world nation, can take more than 14 yrs, as is seen by a specific instance i was shown in another port city. dont go there. allowing an intruder to snort or smoke laundry soap or rat poison--is also an offense. treat your life as if it is only one ye get--because--it is.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:27   #28
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
so, as usual, a story about violencia in foriegn cruising grounds goes off into tangents of violence and guns...rofl

why not just drop the arrogance and shininess of possessions and braggardly ways, and cruise bland, as folks used to do --covering brightwork with latex paint --non gloss-- to prevent being shiniest item in area and most inviting with sugar scoop transoms which invite uninvited company in weird hours??

shiny attracts rats. rats live on two legs and go to that which is attractive to them.
if you flaunt wealth and possessions in front of folks who do not make as much as your coffee costs in one year, then you are inviting trouble.

get real and prevent trouble from happening to you.
dont be shiney
dont show off your stuff in public
dont flaunt wealth in impoverished places.
dont wear jewelry or other adornments--they attract rats--shiney.
besafe ad know what and who is around you at all times.


we all know how hard ye worked to obtain your prize--dont let your pride go before your fall--ugly it down some to avoid being a target.
in the eyes of others who do not make nearly as much as your provisions cost in a year of their hard work, do not brag by being shiny and gorgeous --all boat owners are wealthy beyond anyone else's means--and by being proud of your shiny boat, you are feeding this cycle. be safe.

the actual income here in mexico of hard labor and boat workers--200 pesos daily. peso=from 11-14 per dollar, us. do the math. that is for well paid hands. most are less.
Agree completely!

And please excuse my inadvertent contribution to drifting the thread into the gee yoo enn direction.

The things that stands out to me about this latest deplorable incident is this....the scumbags got in the cabin. Even if you were packing heat on board, which is just dumb nowadays, refighting the OK corral in the saloon is very bad odds. Win by not fighting, if possible. The best is to keep them off the deck in the first place.

What about boarding nettings? Useless under way, but at anchor or moored, a decent net to extend your lifelines up by forcing any potential visitor to make a lot of effort and noise to get aboard. Advance warning, time enough to batten your bullet & crowbar proof hatch, illuminate the area, hit the foghorn/siren and call the cavalry.

All this will probably be useless for me. My bland is so insipid it regresses nearby planetary orbits, and I need to de-ugly some because when I sit on the beach even the tide refuses to come in. Captain Teach would revile me for having a bad hair day, and I'd better not fall off my dream boat because it would be easier tunneling back in through the bilge than trying to climb over the rail.

Last wisps of rant....yes, most of survival is about mindset and cunning. Weapons are often just safety blankies in the hands of folks that are endangering themselves more by having them. But part of the survival mind is the willingness to face and inflict brutal violence if there is absolutely no other way. This usually communicates to the potential opposition, and they slither off to find easier prey. It is not macho bravado, it is being prudent but not cowardly.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:32   #29
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

the more difficult it is to gain entry to your boat, the better off ye are--keeps your boat in the lower desirability groupings, as does simply uglifying it.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:38   #30
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Re: Violent crime in Bocas del Toro

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the more difficult it is to gain entry to your boat, the better off ye are--keeps your boat in the lower desirability groupings, as does simply uglifying it.
Dang! I just finished my brightwork again.
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