Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

We're a big country, so I don't blame foreign visitors for wondering, because they read the news. They've heard about that whack job in Cleveland who made sexual slaves out of three women for 11 years. They've heard about John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy. They've heard about all the shootings in Chicago, but not the highly selective nature of it, because news is presented in sound bytes now.

WE don't get balanced reporting. Certainly foreigners will not.

"Dead baby in dumpster...news at 11".

Good news doesn't sell.

[seacap]

Originally Posted by pbiJim

The last time that I was in St. Thomas, a tourist got her head chopped off at the far end of Morning Star Beach, away from Frenchman's Reef. Bad things do happen in "paradise".

How many years ago was that? I have lived here 26 years and have never heard that one.

In 26 years of sailing the caribbean I have had my dinghy fuel tank stolen twice.

I did get mugged in Palm Beach though.

I sure hope the crew is doing better. What a horrible experience.

[reefhunter]

Originally Posted by colemj

Have you ever been to Texas or Florida? Two states that allow citizens to carry weapons. Have you seen anyone there "flashing" their weapon? They are called "concealed gun permits" - notice the word "concealed".

Yes 10 yrs in each state - Laughlin AFB where I learned how to fly and Homestead AFB where I retired

I stated no such thing. I merely referred to an email I received. It's from the NRA - go argue with them

I cherry picked NOTHING.
Chicago Not Actually ‘Murder Capital’ Of, Well, Anything « CBS Chicago

[Hud3]

It seems inevitable that threads like this always get taken over by posters holding forth with the same old crap about which weapons to use against intruders, stats about crime in Chicago or wherever, and dire warnings about traveling to cruising destinations where crime may exist.

It's sad, really, for at least two reasons. One, those of us who simply want to keep up with any actual developments concerning the cruisers involved, and any progress in catching and prosecuting the perps have to wade through all the sickening claptrap that we've all read before in similar threads. And two, those who want to get into cruising and perhaps had hoped to visit these islands have no real way of sorting the BS from the truth, and end up getting an extremely biased view of the risks involved in the cruising life.

The truth is, that if you listen to advice to avoid the Grenadines and Union Island, you'll be missing some of the best cruising in the Caribbean. If you adopt the attitude, suggested by some here, that you have to be armed (with either lethal or non-lethal measures) and need to constantly be on alert to detect and repel attackers, you'll never enjoy the pleasures of getting to know some of the friendliest, kindest people I've ever met. You'll be constantly looking over your shoulder to see if evil lurks in the shadows rather than enjoying some of the most beautiful scenery and ambiance in the Caribbean.

Sure there is crime in the islands, but your chances of experiencing it as a cruiser are very, very small. Take normal precautions as you would where you live right now. And take all negative comments here with a large grain of salt.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Hud3

It seems inevitable that threads like this always get taken over by posters holding forth with the same old crap about which weapons to use against intruders, stats about crime in Chicago or wherever, and dire warnings about traveling to cruising destinations where crime may exist.

It's sad, really, for at least two reasons. One, those of us who simply want to keep up with any actual developments concerning the cruisers involved, and any progress in catching and prosecuting the perps have to wade through all the sickening claptrap that we've all read before in similar threads. And two, those who want to get into cruising and perhaps had hoped to visit these islands have no real way of sorting the BS from the truth, and end up getting an extremely biased view of the risks involved in the cruising life.

The truth is, that if you listen to advice to avoid the Grenadines and Union Island, you'll be missing some of the best cruising in the Caribbean. If you adopt the attitude, suggested by some here, that you have to be armed (with either lethal or non-lethal measures) and need to constantly be on alert to detect and repel attackers, you'll never enjoy the pleasures of getting to know some of the friendliest, kindest people I've ever met. You'll be constantly looking over your shoulder to see if evil lurks in the shadows rather than enjoying some of the most beautiful scenery and ambiance in the Caribbean.

Sure there is crime in the islands, but your chances of experiencing it as a cruiser are very, very small. Take normal precautions as you would where you live right now. And take all negative comments here with a large grain of salt.

Why does being "constantly alert" have to mean that you'll never enjoy anything? Personally, I try to stay constantly alert wherever I go, here in the US most of all. Doesn't prevent me from enjoying myself one whit. Only takes a little bit of thought and preparedness. I don't need to convince myself I'm "safe" in some non existent idyllic paradise to enjoy myself. The real world doesn't work like that. Just basic street smarts. I don't mind "looking over my shoulder to see if evil lurks in the shadows" at all. You can choose to believe there is no evil and never ever look behind you if you like; me, I'm sussing those shadows out to see what's in em! No reason being basically security conscious means you can't have fun. As a dad sailing with little kids, I couldn't sleep at night any other way. It's part of my job. If something like this happened on my boat, I would probably go jump off a bridge...

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Hud3

It seems inevitable that threads like this always get taken over by posters holding forth with the same old crap about which weapons to use against intruders, stats about crime in Chicago or wherever, and dire warnings about traveling to cruising destinations where crime may exist.

It's sad, really, for at least two reasons. One, those of us who simply want to keep up with any actual developments concerning the cruisers involved, and any progress in catching and prosecuting the perps have to wade through all the sickening claptrap that we've all read before in similar threads. And two, those who want to get into cruising and perhaps had hoped to visit these islands have no real way of sorting the BS from the truth, and end up getting an extremely biased view of the risks involved in the cruising life.

The truth is, that if you listen to advice to avoid the Grenadines and Union Island, you'll be missing some of the best cruising in the Caribbean. If you adopt the attitude, suggested by some here, that you have to be armed (with either lethal or non-lethal measures) and need to constantly be on alert to detect and repel attackers, you'll never enjoy the pleasures of getting to know some of the friendliest, kindest people I've ever met. You'll be constantly looking over your shoulder to see if evil lurks in the shadows rather than enjoying some of the most beautiful scenery and ambiance in the Caribbean.

Sure there is crime in the islands, but your chances of experiencing it as a cruiser are very, very small. Take normal precautions as you would where you live right now. And take all negative comments here with a large grain of salt.

Perfect Hud. The few posts that I did here, I tried to lighten the tone up by joking around a little. Understandably and sadly, the weapon suggestions generally come from the posters of a certain country claiming a very low homicide rate. That I never get. I think if a cruiser is cruising, they get a better understanding of an area to go to by other cruisers who have just been there.
People that feel they need to stay "constantly alert" have probably done so all their life and do not have any reference on what life is when just relaxed and in the now.
Our society seems to teach the young violence through video games and desensitizes them. This is just my opinion of course.

[MarkJ]

Photo of Gun repository in Grenada

When you clear into Grenada this is where your guns go and have their own holiday. No matter what you are going to protect yourself with, a machine gun, pistol or Rambo gun it will be safely in this fort at the top of the hill.
The closest you can get to is it the US$2 tour the police give of the fort (but doesnt include the armoury)

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Perfect Hud. The few posts that I did here, I tried to lighten the tone up by joking around a little. Understandably and sadly, the weapon suggestions generally come from the posters of a certain country claiming a very low homicide rate. That I never get. I think if a cruiser is cruising, they get a better understanding of an area to go to by other cruisers who have just been there.
People that feel they need to stay "constantly alert" have probably done so all their life and do not have any reference on what life is when just relaxed and in the now.
Our society seems to teach the young violence through video games and desensitizes them. This is just my opinion of course.

Do you have kids? I have six year old twins. Constant alertness comes with the territory. Somehow I doubt you are a parent. Being "relaxed and in the now" is not a luxury a parent gets often, at least not a good parent....

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by minaret

Do you have kids? I have six year old twins. Constant alertness comes with the territory. Somehow I doubt you are a parent. Being "relaxed and in the now" is not a luxury a parent gets often, at least not a good parent....

Yes...I am a parent...of 4 and now grown up. I raised them with out TV...without video games and without any undue paranoia. 2 of the 4 have degrees. All 4 are well adjusted and productive, friendly members of society. Your claim of a parent not being a good parent if they have a relaxed attitude is absurd. Good parents need to create a safe environment for their children for sure but not at the cost of instilling fear in them.
Regardless...aside from the thread shift, I am glad the couple are making a speedy recovery.

[rognvald]

"It's like what I said about Chicago: many parts are quite safe. Even in the neighborhoods where there is gang activity, they aren't interested in you. Just keep on driving. I know people who won't drive through any "Black" part of town at night. They're idiots. The gangsters are looking for gangsters who balong to a rival gang -- not you and me. Rakuflames


Sorry for the thread drift, but the last three sentences are not only false, but dangerous to believe if you're traveling in Chicago and people should not believe what was said above is even remotely true. The reason the crime is largely Black on Black is because no White people live in those neighborhoods otherwise, the statistics would show some variation based upon percentages. It is not just gang violence between gang members but car jackings, armed robberies, rapes, kidnappings and home invasions that result in shootings and murders for the unfortunate decent souls that live in those areas. Our late and celebrated major, Jane Byrne, who was in no way a liberal femme fatale, wanted to show Chicagoans the 100% Black populated Cabrini Green housing projects were safe and moved in to prove her point. In a much televised departure, she left in two weeks for fear of her life albeit with an army of Chicago Police as her escorts. As someone who grew up in the city, these falsehoods are dangerous and patently untrue and could only be believed by someone with no first hand experience of our city or any other urban ghetto nationwide.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by seacap

How many years ago was that? I have lived here 26 years and have never heard that one.

In 26 years of sailing the caribbean I have had my dinghy fuel tank stolen twice.

I did get mugged in Palm Beach though.

I sure hope the crew is doing better. What a horrible experience.

I haven't heard that one either... BUT...

V.I. homicide rate still among world's highest - News - Virgin Islands Daily News

[de0xyrib0se]

Originally Posted by zboss

I haven't heard that one either... BUT...

V.I. homicide rate still among world's highest - News - Virgin Islands Daily News

So the homicide rate in V.I. is ~2.5 times higher than in the Grenadines (22.87 per 100,000), which by the way is about the same as Brazil (24.2).

To continue with statistics, the homicide rate in Mexico is 23.69.

That being said, millions of people from all over the world visit Mexico and Brazil every year and the above mentioned statistics hardly impact tourists.

So guys and gals, go out and enjoy the world.

The unfortunate crime (thankfully not a homicide) that has started this thread has been dealt with by authorities and we all hope the victims have a speedy recovery.

Thats my 5 cents!

[Ocean Girl]

Guys, start a thread about this ( Caribbean crime etc.) it obviously is important to you. Please don't muddle this thread with gun talk, a gun wasn't even involved. Start a new thread if you like

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Ocean Girl

Guys, start a thread about this ( Caribbean crime etc.) it obviously is important to you. Please don't muddle this thread with gun talk, a gun wasn't even involved. Start a new thread if you like

I fully agree and suggest this thread as it is still open: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1296575

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I fully agree and suggest this thread as it is still open: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1296575

Glad to reread that Jedi.

I only disagree with one part (It is a conscious, moral decision.) because we are finding more and more that genetics determine not only eye color but brain wiring. Research done - much more needed.