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Old 07-10-2013, 19:01   #121
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Would you rather spend a evening walking the streets of Chicago or the Islands?

Entirely depends on where in Chicago and where in the Islands.
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Old 07-10-2013, 21:13   #122
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Another incident where a good sizeable dog might have made some difference. Kudos to the crew for repelling the assailants. Truly an ugly situation, hope the victims recover fully soon. Doubt I'll ever take my family anywhere I can't take my dog. He never stops watching AND he's too damn much fun on the beach. Might be slightly less legal hassle than a gun too...
Cheers to that!
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Old 07-10-2013, 22:23   #123
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

I would like to realy know what all you feel about these so called laws I would like one person to tell me any law that has ever passed that has served it's purpose at stopped what it is suppose to stop. Criminals don't obey laws the only ones who obey laws are law obiding citizens so what purpose do these laws serve other than opening the door telling all the criminals ok attack those who obey the laws they will surely be unarmed and easy targets.
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:21   #124
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I would like to realy know what all you feel about these so called laws I would like one person to tell me any law that has ever passed that has served it's purpose at stopped what it is suppose to stop. Criminals don't obey laws the only ones who obey laws are law obiding citizens so what purpose do these laws serve other than opening the door telling all the criminals ok attack those who obey the laws they will surely be unarmed and easy targets.
Its not about that its about being smart, so you defend yourself with a weapon, the attackers flee only to tell officials some yachtee they waved a gun at them when they asked for a beer, or you have a dead or wounded attacker you injured/ killed with an illegal firearm, now your wife or mate is ok but alone because your in prison for god knows how long. Is that worth what some kid may have wanted? Believe me im all about self defense but you have weigh the options and decide all the possible outcomes of each situation then decide on a path you have trained for... also think in some of these countries how much worse it would be for others if a firearm fell into the wrong hands. Were not talking about the Us where guns outnumber telephone poles and walmart sells assault rifles,, would it be better if every criminal were allowed full ease of access to weapons like they are in the US?
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:54   #125
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Its not about that its about being smart, so you defend yourself with a weapon, the attackers flee only to tell officials some yachtee they waved a gun at them when they asked for a beer, or you have a dead or wounded attacker you injured/ killed with an illegal firearm, now your wife or mate is ok but alone because your in prison for god knows how long. Is that worth what some kid may have wanted? Believe me im all about self defense but you have weigh the options and decide all the possible outcomes of each situation then decide on a path you have trained for... also think in some of these countries how much worse it would be for others if a firearm fell into the wrong hands. Were not talking about the Us where guns outnumber telephone poles and walmart sells assault rifles,, would it be better if every criminal were allowed full ease of access to weapons like they are in the US?
In this case...showing your wife's face t the court might keep you out of jail if you shot the machete swinging "child"...

I love how the US get's such a bad rap for guns when there are other countries where guns outnumber certainly the people who are supposed to have them whether the gun laws are strict or not.

There are plenty of cruisers from the US that don't carry or like me are in a real quandary about carrying them. Sure they are a hassle when you declare the as a law abiding cruiser....and yes you can make a mistake about who you might shoot....using this particular case isn't probably a good argument for not carrying though.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:32   #126
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I really find it hard to comprehend people that seemingly sail into harms way. Maybe I've spent too long in nice places. But I do not want to sail to areas where I need to be armed. Nor do I want to find myself in a situation where I nee to resort to such extremes. I don't care about the possessions. I insure those that are valuable , the rest is just " stuff" my philosophy is in such circumstances is to offer no resistance and hand over my wallet . In my view its never worth ANYONE getting hurt over " stuff" and that in includes the assailants. This doesn't mean I'm anti gun, quite the contrary , I'm a target shooter in several disclipines and own a selection of semi auto rifles , shotguns and other firearms. I even have a good stainless Mossberg for the yacht if I need to. ( my local police chief sails , so that helps with the licensing !!) I'm extremely comfortable with the mechanics of firearms etc. Still doesn't change my mind. I practice safe processes in dodgy areas , yes I've stayed awake in the cockpit in one or two areas. But anywhere I feel uncomfortable , I'm gone. I don't want to turn my leisure and pleasure activity into an armed conflict that's all

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Old 08-10-2013, 07:17   #127
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

This is a very sad story. I don't think the poor locals can see anyone who sails around as being economically even close to their meager existence. I can't imagine what it must feel like to see the cruiser "invasion" anchoring in the harbors of your nation, legal or not. I don't think violence or stealing from others is how they should deal with their problem But that's apparently all they can think of and that too is sad.

Understanding that crime is everywhere, usually this type related to poverty.. which is also almost everywhere one has to develop some strategy to deal with it. Avoid high crime areas is one. And prepare your boat to deal with invasions... perhaps use non lethal devices like mace, loud noises, and other means of engagement. Barricading oneself down below seems hardly a way to live in the tropics.

Years ago when I sailed down there I encountered the boat boys. I usually got one of them to bring me some bananas or whatever, paying them and that seems to be all they wanted. I never had a problem and even hired one to take me on a tour of the Indian River (was that the name?). If you sense (or know of) bad vibes from any community, you probably don't want to be there... whether it's justified or not. This may be hard to determine and then all you can do is rely on what others have experienced... reputation.

I hope the people have a full recovery and are not soured on cruising.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:23   #128
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For all those posting to not go where it isn't safe: if you plan to skip places like Union Island, where this happened, then it's better to stay home because there will not be enough places to approach land.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:51   #129
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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and walmart sells assault rifles
Really? Since when?
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:56   #130
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Really? Since when?



Since forever.




Walmart Urged To Stop Selling Assault Rifles By More Than 85,000
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:05   #131
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Would you rather spend a evening walking the streets of Chicago or the Islands?

C'mon Third Day,

We've only had 1490 shot and/or killed since the beginning of the year. How dangerous can that be? Sadly, the overwhelming number of casualties are Black and occur in the South and West side of the city(Black). The rest of Chicago in the White areas are peaceful and have relatively little crime. These statistics are well documented in the following site:

HeyJackass!: Chicago Murder, Homicide & Crime 2013 Stats ...


www.heyjackass.com/‎Also, remember, crime statistics are relative to the population. So, a small
country like New Providence, has a murder rate higher than Los Angeles, Ca.

Cruise Law News : Maritime Lawyer & Attorney : James M. Walker : Walker & O'Neill Law Firm : Admiralty Law, Cruise Ship Accidents & InjuriesCaribbean Islands

Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:06   #132
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
For all those posting to not go where it isn't safe: if you plan to skip places like Union Island, where this happened, then it's better to stay home because there will not be enough places to approach land.
I disagree. SVG has been off my list since I started.

I will certainly be bypassing it on my way back up too.

There are millions and zillions of great places here in the Caribbean without having to go to SVG, Dominica or Venuzuaela.

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Old 08-10-2013, 09:14   #133
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Im in MO most weeks working, every Walmart here carries at least 4 different assault rifles Colts, DPMS, Bushmasters, Sigs, etc. You get the sporticals for about $500 or so.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:24   #134
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Ah, you along with many are calling an AR 15 an assault rifle. We hear that a lot and I even wrote an article about it.

Here is a condensed version:

Assault Rifles, Assault Weapons and Military Style Weapons

Consider why and when the terms “Assault Rifle”, “Assault Weapon” and “Military Style” were created and who created them.

Back in the day the Germans invented a fully automatic military rifle and it became known as an Assault RIFLE. This term was later applied to most fully automatic hand held long barrel military weapons. In the 30’s this type of weapon was mostly banned for private citizens and became nearly impossible to legally obtain (Except for criminals, of course). This Assault Rifle ban continues today and no group including the NRA is advocating that it be overturned. That’s right. The NRA is not working to overturn the Assault Rifle Ban. They actually support that ban and so you have to pay attention to the weasel words used by their critics. More on this below.

There is market demand for weapons that look “military” but don’t have military capability. There are hunting rifles that have features such as pistol grips, adjustable stocks, larger capacity magazines, etc. They are often a scary looking black color. BUT, they are semi-automatic just like most rifles and handguns. They are known as Assault Weapons even though they were not designed to be military used. We’ll get to the why of that label further down. A popular example is the AR-15. It is scary looking to those who don’t know what it actually is and think that it is the military weapon that it looks like. It is not.

Congress actually passed an “Assault Weapons” ban in 1994 which lapsed in 2004. That previous “Scary Looking Weapons” ban did not accomplish whatever it was intended to accomplish and so it was not renewed.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein recently attempted to bring back an even more restrictive version of this ban but it didn’t pass, mostly because the criterion was contrived, arbitrary and way overreaching. This bill was widely perceived as stage one of banning all guns.

Those like M’s Feinstein who don’t like the very idea of guns made up the term, “Assault WEAPON” because it sounds a lot like the lethal and banned military “Assault RIFLE”. This was done to confuse people who don’t know guns and just assume that all guns that look the same are the same. Then the word “assault” gets bandied about, “rifle” and “weapon” become interchangeable and pretty soon the average person thinks that all scary looking weapons are the same which IMO was the intent all along. If one type is bad then both types must be bad and all must be banned goes the anti-gun logic.

Military Style is another made up term to make one think that weapons that look like actual military weapons can do what actual military weapons can do. They can’t and they don’t but after awhile everything becomes “military” and therefore bad and so must be banned. Semi-automatic hunting rifles are not military issue no matter what they look like.

Back to the AR 15 which is NOT an assault rifle but I’ll bet if asked, most would think that it is and point to the AR designation. The reality is that AR comes from the name of the original manufacturer, ARmalite, Inc. or Armalite Rifle and has nothing at all to do with assaulting anything. The letters “AR” are a coincidence but often referenced in order to mislead.

The AR 15 is the most popular rifle sold in America today. It is not a military weapon although much earlier, fully automatic versions used to be. Today the AR 15 is semi-automatic and even though no longer a military weapon, still looks “military style” which is part of its appeal to some.

Wiki has an excellent presentation of Assault Rifles and Assault Weapons for those interested in facts.

Assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for the topic at hand, IMO carrying weapons into a country where they are illegal seems like a very bad idea for the already stated reasons.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:29   #135
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Im in MO most weeks working, every Walmart here carries at least 4 different assault rifles Colts, DPMS, Bushmasters, Sigs, etc. You get the sporticals for about $500 or so.
None of those are assault rifles although they look like them.


Assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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