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Old 05-10-2013, 20:27   #76
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by de0xyrib0se View Post
Which places would those be? The odds of you getting shot on the way to the corner deli in New York are thousands of times higher than some lunatic boarding your boat with a machete.
St.Vincent and its islands has seriously gone downhill as a cruising destination; it started getting an nasty edge after the 2008 financial crisis and we haven't been back there since a bit thereafter. As for NYC, a better comparison would be Camden,NJ.
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Old 05-10-2013, 20:37   #77
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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- I have heard /read of attacks in Chatham bay too.
In 2010, we were bailed out by a local charter/BBQ operator who realized having cruisers attacked would be bad for business. Me and my wife against 4 men? No chance at all.

More than the physical wounds, I hope that Tina overcomes her psychological wounds from this attack.
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Old 05-10-2013, 20:52   #78
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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When we were there we heard a story about a recent event - a local that was attacked walking back from Chatham Bay after running one of the BBQ's he does for his business.
Oh wow, I hope this is not the same guy who helped us out a few years back. That would be horrible. The guy ran BBQ's under the name "Shark Attack."
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Old 05-10-2013, 23:38   #79
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

"customs officers theres one thing they can pretty quickly spot: an honest cruiser! so they won't worry about an honest person with a non lethal thing that's kept on board." Is the inference here that people who carry weapons are in someway dishonest? I'm sure that's not what you mean. But it leans that way. I am not a gun nut. I have them and only fire them for/at training purposes. I miss the recreational aspect. Just noise to me. Mt present boat has a forward cabin and an aft cabin. There will be a concealed yet easily accessed weapon in each cabin. I am very much in agreement that these things are dangerous and often lead to the owner getting hurt. It all goes back to training. I have also heard similar tales regarding pepper sprays where the victim sprays themselves. Or the assailant just gets really pissed off at your attack. If you don't train and prepare, you will panic and things will go badly. The best plan is to employ a self defense consultant trained in the use of weapons for defense. 'Chance favors the prepared mind' Drill, practice, map it out in your mind, and then forget about it. I would so much rather consider milder measures and there is no reason to not have those measures readily available, and I will be prepared for the drunk who is confused and belligerent, but I will also be ready for the psychopath with the machete. And as to can I get to 'it' in time? Probably 50%yes and 50% no, which is considerably better that 100 no. To me it's like the life raft that you hope you'll never need. Final pithy comment, I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:28   #80
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

If concealing and not declaring possession of a firearm is a crime, then this makes a criminal of the perpetrator does it not? Hiding a firearm when illegal is certainly not honest.

I do not think pepper falls into this category. In some countries (Venezuela) weapons are permitted as long as they are declared and registered with authorities. In others this could land you in jail. In most countries the weapon will be taken and (sometimes) returned when you leave.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:54   #81
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

This Wiki Page has a long list of countries and the rule concerning pepper spray.

I was surprised by how many countries outright forbid it and will arrest you for possession.

I was a cop for thirty years... During my tenure I used both a CS (Mace) and OC (Pepper Spray). Both of them worked with mixed results and neither was very effective with persons high on drugs/alcohol or with extreme mental disorders.

The other problem with carrying pepper spray on boats is that pepper spray is not a guided missile, when you shoot it, it will contaminate the immediate area, especially in enclosed spaces... In other words it might incapacitate you as well as your attacker.

Pepper Spray was a good option as a police officer in a escalation of force situation, but on a boat it would not be my first weapon of choice, unless the attackers were in a dinghy next to my boat.
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:19   #82
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This Wiki Page has a long list of countries and the rule concerning pepper spray. I was surprised by how many countries outright forbid it and will arrest you for possession. I was a cop for thirty years... During my tenure I used both a CS (Mace) and OC (Pepper Spray). Both of them worked with mixed results and neither was very effective with persons high on drugs/alcohol or with extreme mental disorders. The other problem with carrying pepper spray on boats is that pepper spray is not a guided missile, when you shoot it, it will contaminate the immediate area, especially in enclosed spaces... In other words it might incapacitate you as well as your attacker. Pepper Spray was a good option as a police officer in a escalation of force situation, but on a boat it would not be my first weapon of choice, unless the attackers were in a dinghy next to my boat.

Tom

Since you have some experience what are your thoughts on http://www.coldsteel.com/Inferno-Pepper-Spray.aspx.

The firm present their product as "Highly Targetable - because it's a foam and not a spray or fog, it's easy to hit your target accurately indoors or outdoors with Inferno. It won't contaminate an entire room. This makes it ideal for use in confined spaces like homes, shops, offices and parking garages."

Any thoughts on it? Seems like a good non-lethal response....
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:24   #83
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

It's pretty stupid for a cruiser to not have a contingency plan for anything that could happen, on the hope and belief that it won't happen.

We don't all have the same plan for how to deal with heavy weather, or hurricanes, or a hole in the boat, or a broken rudder, or a rigging failure, and we don't all have the same plan to deal with violence directed against us.

I have my plan, and the training and experience to carry it out. I'm satisfied with my plan to the point I don't even feel like I need to talk about it.

But, to not have one is not an option since you don't get to choose whether you will need one or not.
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:49   #84
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on a boat it would not be my first weapon of choice, unless the attackers were in a dinghy next to my boat.
Not to divert the thread too much, but I'm curious (safety being a major topic for the admiral), what would be your first weapon I choice?
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:00   #85
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Not to divert the thread too much, but I'm curious (safety being a major topic for the admiral), what would be your first weapon I choice?
Are you asking if I carried a gun while cruising... Then the answer is NO.

Beyond that it would depend on the situation. As a cop, my mouth was my first and usually best weapon

I am not here to give advice on personal security... Everyone and every situation is different and it would be impractical to do that on this forum.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:07   #86
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

How about safety in numbers? If you want to go off by yourself it seems that all self defense options have marked downsides. It appears you need an element of luck to avoid trouble. A scenario where you use lethal force and are detained pursuant to local justice seems like WAY off the point of cruising.IMHO.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:08   #87
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Not to divert the thread too much, but I'm curious (safety being a major topic for the admiral), what would be your first weapon I choice?
So, as this question was asked, there can only be one answer: the weapon that was designed for situations like this: the Taurus Judge or the S&W Governor. The design goal of the judge was to be used in car-jacking situations. The Governor puts S&W quality into the concept.
This is the gun that many try to simulate with adapters for flareguns, i.e. a handgun that shoots shotgun shells.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:09   #88
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

I find it hard to understand how anyone would be able to board an anchored vessel totally undetected WHILST THE CREW IS AWAKE ... ??? ... had they been sleeping then perhaps they could easily get aboard without waking anyone .... a key points to note is that preventing anyone boarding your boat is easier to deal with than those already aboard .... any small boat-sized dog ( although no use as an attack or protection dog ) would have raised the alarm long before anyone even got near the vessel .... ?
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:16   #89
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Not to divert the thread too much, but I'm curious (safety being a major topic for the admiral), what would be your first weapon I choice?
We are just about to start our worldwide cruising and events such as this do raise concerns and justify having a plan, just as having a weather contingency. Ours is a multi-faceted boat alarm (strobe, siren, sensors) and a Tazer C2?

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Old 06-10-2013, 08:28   #90
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Are you asking if I carried a gun while cruising... Then the answer is NO. Beyond that it would depend on the situation. As a cop, my mouth was my first and usually best weapon I am not here to give advice on personal security... Everyone and every situation is different and it would be impractical to do that on this forum.
I agree that a gun is not a viable option while cruising. My wife and I were both trained well in the Army and although guns have always been a central part of our personal security, when we decided to go cruising, we sold them all off. The other parts of our training (analyzing threats, determining options, verbally defusing a situation and close quarter hand to hand, if needed) are much more effective. I wasn't looking for guidance, advice or training, I only asked because it seemed like you were alluding to a non-lethal deterrent.

My apologies for the assumption.
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