Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

[Krogensailor]

If you go off where 911 are just numbers, in that no one is coming to save you, you had best be prepared. I hear the hope in some comments that things will be OK and we need to understand. But there is a dark side. I always think of that Flannery O'Connor short story, 'A few good men', when people wax hopeful. Truth is, there are bad folks out there. And the chances of you running into them are actually pretty slim, but someones going to run into them, and it could be you. Take responsibility for yourself and your loved ones, be prepared. Or stay in the campground. No harm in that. Small cal., hollow point, laser is good. Training is mandatory. Just my opinion, not interested in discussing it. Good luck one and all.

[minaret]

Another incident where a good sizeable dog might have made some difference. Kudos to the crew for repelling the assailants. Truly an ugly situation, hope the victims recover fully soon. Doubt I'll ever take my family anywhere I can't take my dog. He never stops watching AND he's too damn much fun on the beach. Might be slightly less legal hassle than a gun too...

[Boatguy30]

Ok, you're in the cockpit having dinner. Maybe the bug screens are in the hatches and you have no reason to suspect that this will be a dangerous anchorage.

Do you have time to go below, get your weapon from it's secure storage and wield it before they hack up your wife.

I say this because, my politics aside, I gave a lot of thought to carrying a weapon onboard but have heard of only one legitimate story where a weapon was successfully used to defend a small yacht in a boarding situation. That was 2 yachts transiting the Red Sea that were both armed and staged an active defense when a fishing vessel attempted to board one of them.

As you spend a lot of time ashore, going to cocktails on other boats past dusk: it would seem to me the weapon would always need to be secured onboard so as not to find yourself looking at the wrong end some night after a few too many rum drinks.

Again, I'm not looking to provoke this topic, but I think a guy like Mark honestly has the more well reasoned and experienced opinion. Unfortunately, it may just be there are a lot of places that will no longer be safe destinations as the US continues to export its problems, violent video games and weapons.

[casual]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The assault was not in Grenada but the next country up: St Vincent and the Grenadines. The injured were transported to Grenada as it has better facilities, is safe, and the locals love the cruisers.


Re Guns... to those that want to kill the assailant/s...: the person with the machete is 15. You would have killed a child.


Mark

Anyone with a Weapon coming at you is not a child anymore.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Ok, you're in the cockpit having dinner. Maybe the bug screens are in the hatches and you have no reason to suspect that this will be a dangerous anchorage.

Do you have time to go below, get your weapon from it's secure storage and wield it before they hack up your wife.

While I don't know the details of how he did it, Mark DID manage to drive these attackers off.

[Boatguy30]

I thought markj was just reporting this.
Was the guy attacked named mark also?

[Anchors Away]

I think you mean "A Good Man is Hard to Find." In that story, the protagonist acts decently for the first time in her life, mainly becasue the antgonist is pointing a gun at her. This was supposed to by a reply to Krogen's comment. I just don't know how to internet.

[SaltyTanned]

Union is like home to me. Yes it is part of St Vincent but unlike the "mainland" it is not violent.

Union is a most quiet community. A small island where everyone knows everyone. A place where if you have a sad expression someone will come and ask what is wrong and offer help or buy you a drink. They are caring warm people, not bandits.

There is a doctor on the island and I cannot understand why they had to sail to Carriacou? Probably that they could not raise anyone on the VHF? If they had just dinghied to shore and they would have gotten help immediately.

Every year since 1996 I have spent much time on Union. There was a rash of thefts some years ago but this was cured. Violence like this is not part of Union. The local people I am sure will react.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

I thought markj was just reporting this.
Was the guy attacked named mark also?

Yes, I am just reporting it. The guy who was attacked is name Mark too

I just did the VHF control for Rescue 1

Mark and Tina were in their saloon, below, having dinner when Tina felt a movement outside in the cockpit and put her head up the companionway and was immediately hit in the face with the machete, she turned to come back down the companionway and was slicked in the shoulder. I saw the photos and ... words like 'slice' and 'laceration' dont cover it.
Mark went up into the cockpit. The assailant swam away.
When arrested a 15 year old had several cuts in his arm.
The machete was left on the deck.

I dont really want to go into it as I don't know it all and lets give it time / police etc to do stuff and relax and all that.


Back on the option to kill or not kill... and this part of my post has nothing to do with the incident, its just MY method if someone in attacking my boat whether or not the companionway security grill is in nor not.


Velcroed to the inside of the companionway door. This is gas to spay downwind.


Gang Warefare size This is gell to spray upwind or downwind


Even the duck sleeps with some! This is gell that can spray upwind out through the hatches above the duck.

[s/v Jedi]

- This is not the first attack in this anchorage, it is a trouble spot.

- I have heard /read of attacks in Chatham bay too.

- Age is of no defense value for violent assault. Defend yourself and your loved ones at maximum violence level you are capable of when you are under attack, instead of wondering about who the attacker is.

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Yes, I am just reporting it. The guy who was attacked is name Mark too

I just did the VHF control for Rescue 1

Mark and Tina were in their saloon, below, having dinner when Tina felt a movement outside in the cockpit and put her head up the companionway and was immediately hit in the face with the machete, she turned to come back down the companionway and was slicked in the shoulder. I saw the photos and ... words like 'slice' and 'laceration' dont cover it.
Mark went up into the cockpit. The assailant swam away.
When arrested a 15 year old had several cuts in his arm.
The machete was left on the deck.

I dont really want to go into it as I don't know it all and lets give it time / police etc to do stuff and relax and all that.


Back on the option to kill or not kill... and this part of my post has nothing to do with the incident, its just MY method if someone in attacking my boat whether or not the companionway security grill is in nor not.

Mark do you ever get hassled by officials about the spray?

Terrible story and images of someone attacking first without any demands. Wonder what's up with that?

[SaltyTanned]

There was an armed robbery (guns) on a cat in Chatham Bay along with 3 others boats in other anchorages the same night by the same criminals, but this was many years ago and the culprits were arrested and jailed except one that escaped the country. No injuries were reported.

There was an attack on a boat at the Tobago Cays over a year ago and again culprits were arrested (not Union people).

At one time Chatham bay was a rendez-vous point for drug traffic. It was then risky to be there at night. This was years ago and the anchorage is again safe.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by psneeld

. When they trained me on how to use a retractable government issue ball point pen to disable and/or kill a person...I knew that always having my firearms at hand was not nearly as important as keeping a clear mind.

Not many can learn to use a ball point pen to defeat a machete.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by cheoah

Mark do you ever get hassled by officials about the spray?

Oh thats not my boat... just some photos I found on the net

Its legal in many places. in all French islands its legal, all Asia, Bahamas etc.
No, never have any trouble. If customs are searching a boat they have more important things to look for... guns, drugs contraband etc.

And, no matter what we think about customs officers theres one thing they can pretty quickly spot: an honest cruiser! so they won't worry about an honest person with a non lethal thing thats kept on board.


Mark

[minaret]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Oh thats not my boat... just some photos I found on the net

Its legal in many places. in all French islands its legal, all Asia, Bahamas etc.
No, never have any trouble. If customs are searching a boat they have more important things to look for... guns, drugs contraband etc.

And, no matter what we think about customs officers theres one thing they can pretty quickly spot: an honest cruiser! so they won't worry about an honest person with a non lethal thing thats kept on board.


Mark

That's military grade CS tear gas, illegal in many places. Pepper spray is a bit more innocuous.


Inferno Pepper Spray


INFERNO
There are many unfortunate people who have endured the terror of a violent assault. The luckier ones that survived these crimes are often changed forever. There remains, long after the incident has passed, a paralyzing loss of confidence, a circumspect mistrust of strangers, and a thorough foreboding about the world in general. In short, they got away with their lives, but are now fearful of everything. It's as if they get victimized twice!
Those who have never suffered a life-threatening assault dread the possibility of it happening to ourselves or our loved ones. The mind numbing idea of being unable or insufficiently prepared to defend one's self is too alarming to consider.
It's unfortunate as well that we cannot always count on assistance from an already overburdened police force. Law enforcement agencies aren't equipped to respond to every call, no matter how desperate, and often by the time they are called it's too late for them to do much more than assess the scene and call an ambulance.
There were over 1,408,337 violent crimes committed in 2007, and with the general loss of economic prosperity we've had in 2008, that number is surely going to continue to rise. The statistics from the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Program paint a grim picture of the world we live in today:
One murder occurs every 31 minutes (that's 46 a day!)
One forcible rape happens every 5.8 minutes (that's 248 a day!)
One robbery transpires every 1.2 minutes (that's 1200 a day!)
And one aggravated assault takes place every 36.8 seconds (that's 2345 a day!)
The only answer to this threat of physical violence is a thoughtful plan of self-defense. Since many men and the vast majority of women lack the physical strength and martial skill necessary to repel a violent attack it's important this plan includes some sort of weapon that could be used as an equalizer.
A firearm is the ultimate equalizer, and it's the one that comes first to most people's minds. And it truly is. That is if you're well trained in its proper use, and know fully its limitations as well as its advantages. A person untrained in the use of firearms may think they can just pull their handgun out of their pocket or purse and start blasting away. It's a dangerous kind of confidence. You could get hurt, and you might hurt or kill somebody other than your attacker. So what's the answer? A non-lethal weapon like Inferno that's instantly available, easy to use and totally effective.
WHAT IS INFERNO?
Inferno is a new pepper canister weapon from Cold Steel that will turn the biggest, meanest, most violent criminal into helpless molten wax at your feet. Unlike other pepper sprays you may have heard about, Inferno deploys a highly targetable foam that contains 8% Oleoresin Capsicum and 2% black pepper. It dissolves into a liquid on contact (this liquefaction effect is tactically important, since other sprays remain "foamy" -like a pie in the face-and make it possible for your assailant to wipe the foam from his face and chuck it at you). One good shot in the face with Inferno will dilate the capillaries of the eyes causing temporary blindness. It will induce choking, coughing and nausea and most importantly trigger an immediate and massive sneeze reflex (due to the atomized black pepper particles) that will drag the super hot Habanero chili extract deep into the mucous membranes of the sinus cavities of the nose, throat and lungs causing them to swell up and prevent all but desperate life support breathing. In short Inferno will melt any attacker(s) into the ground and leave them totally incapacitated for a considerable period of time giving you ample opportunity to escape and summon the police.
ADVANTAGES OF INFERNO
Highly Targetable - because it's a foam and not a spray or fog, it's easy to hit your target accurately indoors or outdoors with Inferno. It won't contaminate an entire room. This makes it ideal for use in confined spaces like homes, shops, offices and parking garages.
Not Overly Sticky - Many pepper gels on the market are advertised to stick like glue and that is a pretty good description as they adhere so firmly, that it's difficult to clean away the crusty, over sprayed contamination that ends up on furniture, automobiles or on your clothing. In contrast Inferno, while being extremely effective can be easily cleaned off with ordinary soap and water.
Safe - Inferno's unique formulation will not blister the skin or burn the corneas of the eyes.
High Quality - Unlike other brands, Inferno uses the absolute best HFC134A aerosol propellant, which is the same propellant, used in bronchial inhalers. The force of this propellant never diminishes no matter how much you have already sprayed out of the canister. In contrast, competing brands use Hydrocarbon, which is flammable, less consistent and less powerful. Some use nitrogen, which leaks out of the canister over time and supplies an inconsistent pressure.
Non Flammable and Awesomely Effective - Inferno, as mixed, is non-flammable and while the HFC134A propellant is one of the more expensive alternatives, we use it because it breaks up and atomizes the particles of chili pepper and black pepper 2,000 times finer than other propellants on the market, making Inferno more effective as a stopping agent, because more material is inhaled/absorbed by your attacker. This makes Inferno very effective on people who are intoxicated on drugs or so enraged that they do not feel pain during their violent rampages.