Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by minaret

Dude, she was the master! Surrounded by children arriving at school in the same building and people hiding under their desks in the offices around her, she kept her weapon trained on the gunman and talked to him without firing until the building was partially evacuated and police arrived. When they deemed it safe, the cops and this officer filled that guy with lead. He died on the way to the hospital. She may not have had the best form, but she has a huge pair of brass balls, and should not be spoken ill of! I think she judged the level of this guys resolve right away when he didn't fire immediately, and did the right thing. Very professional to attempt to diffuse the situation instead of just shooting at the front doors of a busy school with a parking lot full of children arriving. Hero! The world needs more women in roles like this, better judgment, more thought before action.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Here's officer Carolyn Gudger being interviewed by a reporter following the standoff, you'd best watch it before judging her. This woman is a hero in a league of her own. She did all of this without having on her ballistic vest, while the local cops took over 13 minutes to respond from outside the building. She protected several office workers behind her rather than take cover herself. Officer Gudger is welcome in our home and on our boat anytime. HERO!

Easy guys.
I never said she didn't have balls. I said -

Also that is foolish on the officers part. Unless she is clairvoyant she could not know at which second she would die. She was not trained that way.

Originally Posted by minaret

When she says "it was just instinct" to step between the gunman and his target, that says it ALL. Sheepdog.



This guy thought he was a wolf, but when faced with a real protector he quickly realized he wasn't. She knew this from the start. Probably because she is familiar with the real deal. I would be happy to have this woman protecting my kids any day!

She can protect me kids too but I want her to do it the way she was trained. End it now. Not go through a therapy session after being told multiple times to put the gun down.

Flame away if you want.

Also I noted in the interview that after the deputies showed up and told him to drop the gun there were "shots fired". No more therapy. Did she fire? If she did I bet it was after the deputies did as they were trained to do in a situation like that. End it now. Too many others around that could possibly be involved/injured. Did she wake up and fire or just wake up? She did say at one point she had no idea what she was going to do. I believe her.

Personally I was never in a situation like that when I wore a badge. Extremely rare as I am sure you know. I don't think I would held out that long though. I think I would have **** or got off the pot. No way to know.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Therapy

No way to know.

That's the one thing for sure there.



She did fill his ass with lead. Probably no way to know who shot first either. I refuse to second guess this woman's choices, a potentially terrible situation was averted by her actions and it all came out as well as possible, considering. Only better outcome would have been if her repeated attempts to talk him into putting the gun down had paid off. At least she had the guts to try for that, and was clearly comfortable risking her own life to do so. H-E-R-O!

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by vtsailguy

Delfin, I followed that link and read with diligence the paper. I was surprised at the findings to be honest. I quick jaunt around google shows that even news outlets are using the Harvard paper to challenge this idea.

Then I kept googling.....

Well, thank you for bringing in objective and reliable sources like the DailyKos, Fark.com, Sourcewatch, and "Exxon Secret Facts" to refute actual scientific research. Had I known the one study had a misprint in the Luxembourg murder rate, I would have dismissed it out of hand.

However, that must mean that you can point us to research that demonstrates your point - that strict gun laws result in less violent crime, presumably because the criminals who now are the only ones possessing guns are inspired to pacifism by the honest citizens who are now unarmed. Since I am unaware of any coherent evidence that would support this contention, I won't hold my breath waiting for anything other than more polemics.

Those that have noted that no one is likely to change their views that gun control is virtuous, whatever the facts may be, are correct.

Signing off....

[sailpower]

To those who continue to reference US gun laws, you should be aware that they are not the same in every state.

While there are some national laws (no fully automatic weapons for example) each state has their own laws regarding who can carry, where they can carry, what they can carry, etc.

Even ownership (not carry) rights vary.


It is by no means homogeneous.


The so called blue states (Progressive) tend to be the most restrictive in their interpretation of our second amendment.

[pablothesailor]

We dont have guns in the UK, not even the Police, some country folk get permits for 12 bore shotguns to shoot rabbits, thats about it........I certainly feel better this way than i have in countries where guns are common and legal.......but this is just what ive been brought up with, a world of guns in the home is alien to me!

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by minaret

That's the one thing for sure there.



She did fill his ass with lead. Probably no way to know who shot first either. I refuse to second guess this woman's choices, a potentially terrible situation was averted by her actions and it all came out as well as possible, considering. Only better outcome would have been if her repeated attempts to talk him into putting the gun down had paid off. At least she had the guts to try for that, and was clearly comfortable risking her own life to do so. H-E-R-O!

She did do that. My clock would have counted down much faster.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by sailpower

To those who continue to reference US gun laws, you should be aware that they are not the same in every state.

While there are some national laws (no fully automatic weapons for example) each state has their own laws regarding who can carry, where they can carry, what they can carry, etc.

Even ownership (not carry) rights vary.


It is by no means homogeneous.


The so called blue states (Progressive) tend to be the most restrictive in their interpretation of our second amendment.

True. As you have noted, anti-Americanism and a data free attitude towards the second amendment and gun ownership go hand in hand. I though the below illustrates your point pretty well. If we added England (a country) and Scotland (a country) as states, they'd have lower murder rates than some states but higher than others. Interestingly, all of the states in the graph below have either licensed open carry laws on the books, or no restrictions at all.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Delfin

True. As you have noted, anti-Americanism and a data free attitude towards the second amendment and gun ownership go hand in hand. I though the below illustrates your point pretty well. If we added England (a country) and Scotland (a country) as states, they'd have lower murder rates than some states but higher than others. Interestingly, all of the states in the graph below have either licensed open carry laws on the books, or no restrictions at all.

What's up with Wyoming and North Dakota? Too cold and it makes them angry? Seen "Fargo" too many times?

I also notice those are some pretty blue states on the left end of the graph!

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by minaret

What's up with Wyoming and North Dakota? Too cold and it makes them angry? Seen "Fargo" too many times?

I also notice those are some pretty blue states on the left end of the graph!

They use wood chippers in the Dakotas. Saves on ammo.

And you are quite correct, while blue states can have lesser or more restrictive gun laws, their murder rates can be higher or lower than states with the reverse. This only proves the point that gun laws have very little to do with murder rates, even if they make their proponents feel virtuous.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by pablothesailor

We dont have guns in the UK, not even the Police, some country folk get permits for 12 bore shotguns to shoot rabbits, thats about it........I certainly feel better this way than i have in countries where guns are common and legal.......but this is just what ive been brought up with, a world of guns in the home is alien to me!

In this little corner of the UK we have very liberal gun laws - can have handguns and pretty much anything up to stuff that needs a tripod! Gun crime is next to zero! .....but so is gun ownership .

The secret is shared economic prosperity (at least to some degree - after all we are a tax haven and not a socialist workers paradise, despite the free healthcare ) . To be blunt, if you want to live in a dog eat dog world gotta plan around getting bit now and again.

Removing guns from a society as an answer to violence is as pointless as simply removing large cooking pots from Cannibals to stop them eating folk! You first need a change in attitude by the locals - and that largely comes from themselves to realise that killing each other on a regular basis (whether eaten or not!) is not the only way to live.... and that whilst living civilised does have it's downsides, nonetheless overall involves a better quality of life for most. ......of course not so good for those selling big cooking pots .

[sailorboy1]

you people haven't watched Bowling for Combine

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by pablothesailor

We dont have guns in the UK, not even the Police, some country folk get permits for 12 bore shotguns to shoot rabbits, thats about it........I certainly feel better this way than i have in countries where guns are common and legal.......but this is just what ive been brought up with, a world of guns in the home is alien to me!

So, why do I remember Dutch shooters flocking to Bisley with their rifles for championships target? Plenty Englishman participating there too

Bisley, just Googled it and hits indicate a rise in English shooters.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

While there are always poor unfortunate types with mental illnesses , most are not in any way violent, the truly scary ones are usually not identifiable.

It would be wrong to suggest that all these communities have violent but jobs wandering around though.

Dave .

I'd agree that it's unfortunate that so many suffer but those were not the ones I was speaking of. I was speaking of those that have committed violent felonies or are likely to commit violent felonies and there is no ability to deal with them; and the fact that most Caribbean nations have no cash to keep them locked up. The standard protocol is to wait until they do something crazy then take them in for a few days of drug treatment then let them out. Next time you are in .....name a country.... Ask them to show you the funny farm. They don't have one. The truly scary ones like Hannibal Lector types are sent to Puerto Rico mental for the long term.

If you look at the attached report you will find that most nations in the Caribbean don't even have a national mental health policy let alone a managed modern facility. This directly affects the methodology needed by cruisers to design an posture necessary to defend against assailants. I suspect that most of the extremely violent episodes of crime against cruisers include an element of mental instability outside of the normal sociopathic tendencies of most common criminals, although the lack of effective data collection techniques inhibit the ability to come to other conclusions. The alternative is that there are perfectly normal people out there committing extremely violent acts against others, which makes no sense.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/evi...ibbeans_en.pdf

[minaret]

Originally Posted by zboss

The alternative is that there are perfectly normal people out there committing extremely violent acts against others, which makes no sense.

Ever read any history? Violent acts come naturally to a very wide range of people, no mental illness required. Though it certainly can be a factor...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pablothesailor

We dont have guns in the UK, not even the Police, some country folk get permits for 12 bore shotguns to shoot rabbits, thats about it........I certainly feel better this way than i have in countries where guns are common and legal.......but this is just what ive been brought up with, a world of guns in the home is alien to me!

You have very little understanding of UK gun laws. Outside handguns quite a wide range of firearms including semi autos can be licences.

Note one does not shoot rabbits with shotguns

Dave