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Old 09-11-2013, 23:41   #301
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I couldn't agree more. Its not "if" its going to happen, its "when" its going to happen!! BE PREPARED! (Its the Boy Scout motto)
I can't go that far. This is actually a rare occurrence and most cruisers will never experience an attack. But BE PREPARED, sure always a good idea. And how you do that is up to you.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:51   #302
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I suppose different people will take different lessons from this incident. Sadly, it confirms that there are people in the world who will decapitate a women for a few dollars. Nothing new, of course, but given the existence of such evil in the world, I always have a hard time seeing how the desire of some to want to be able to protect themselves is seen as wrong by others, and worthwhile forbidding.
I'm not aware anyone has ever said people shouldn't protect themselves. What has been debated is the arguments over passive and active measures, their effectiveness , the appropriateness of some measures and their associated legality and the suitability of such measures to the personalities of those involved and the situation at hand.

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Old 10-11-2013, 03:53   #303
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I can't go that far. This is actually a rare occurrence and most cruisers will never experience an attack. But BE PREPARED, sure always a good idea. And how you do that is up to you.
I couldn't agree more , always take sensible precautions but you cannot live with a fortress mentality or a constant worry over personal safety. You have to weigh the odds and live your life. The advantages is you can move your house.

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Old 10-11-2013, 08:07   #304
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I'm not aware anyone has ever said people shouldn't protect themselves. What has been debated is the arguments over passive and active measures, their effectiveness , the appropriateness of some measures and their associated legality and the suitability of such measures to the personalities of those involved and the situation at hand.

Dave
There are many jurisdictions in the world where it certainly is forbidden to protect yourself, if by protection one means lawful and effective deterrence. That was what I was referring to. Effective deterrence, at least to me, means the ability to immobilize a threat with deadly force if need be, with clear communication to anyone interested that you likely have that capability. By outlawing such deterrence, sane bad people know that the odds are they only have to deal with an unarmed, or ineffectively armed victim. Insane bad people are a bit harder to deter....
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Old 10-11-2013, 13:47   #305
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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There are many jurisdictions in the world where it certainly is forbidden to protect yourself, if by protection one means lawful and effective deterrence. That was what I was referring to. Effective deterrence, at least to me, means the ability to immobilize a threat with deadly force if need be, with clear communication to anyone interested that you likely have that capability. By outlawing such deterrence, sane bad people know that the odds are they only have to deal with an unarmed, or ineffectively armed victim. Insane bad people are a bit harder to deter....
Confusing … how can it be forbidden and lawful at the same time. Or do you mean lawful in some countries but unlawful and therefore forbidden in others.
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Old 10-11-2013, 14:56   #306
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Laws are laws. If you do not like a countries laws, do not go there. Very simple.
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Old 10-11-2013, 15:06   #307
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Wow this is very tragic news. Makes one think to carry firearms and spearfish gun on board these days. And I only thought Africa was full of pirates around Somalia.

I love the Caribbean. Learned to scuba dive there and off to learn to sail in BVI next month. A dream place of mine to retire.
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Old 10-11-2013, 15:19   #308
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

St. Vincent & The Grenadines:
Licensed firearms must be declared and are subject to immigration and police regulations. An application must be made to the Commissioner of Police for a local licence. Undeclared and unlicenced firearms will be seized by the authorities. Firearms must be declared on arrival, and can be sealed on board, but if a yacht has no suitable locker, the firearms will be held in the custody of customs or police until departure.
The locker must be locked and sealed with tape. A gun would not have done much good
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Old 11-11-2013, 19:57   #309
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Still worth getting the licenses to be able to protect oneself from these things.
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Old 11-11-2013, 20:19   #310
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Still worth getting the licenses to be able to protect oneself from these things.
Assuming they are not locked up at the local customs office. :-)
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Old 11-11-2013, 20:34   #311
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Still worth getting the licenses to be able to protect oneself from these things.
Please look up the requirements for a license there. You will not be given one.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:42   #312
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They always allowed me to keep my shotgun aboard; didn't even ask if there was a gunlocker (which there is on our boat).

The license is for when you want to take it ashore.

In our case, the perp would have met Mr Mossberg while he was kicking in the entrance gate to the cabin.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:21   #313
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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They always allowed me to keep my shotgun aboard; didn't even ask if there was a gunlocker (which there is on our boat).

The license is for when you want to take it ashore.

In our case, the perp would have met Mr Mossberg while he was kicking in the entrance gate to the cabin.
Eric Sommer is still rotting in jail more than a year after simply wrestling an intruder and shoving him overboard. I believe one must very quickly sail far away after using any weapon.

How do you things evolving after repelling an attack with a firearm?
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Old 12-11-2013, 19:57   #314
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Eric Sommer is still rotting in jail more than a year after simply wrestling an intruder and shoving him overboard. I believe one must very quickly sail far away after using any weapon. How do you things evolving after repelling an attack with a firearm?
I believe he killed the guy with witnesses around. One should abide the law and self defense does not include retailliation. Kicking in my companionway to get to me and my wife means that you're gonna either come to your senses when Mr Mossberg greets you, or you don't, kick in the entrance and be shot.
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Old 13-11-2013, 01:08   #315
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

No the Owner was South African, the crew was from Eastern Europe, there wasn´t enough evidence to charge him so he was let lose, very sad for all concerned.
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