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Old 14-10-2013, 15:59   #256
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Here's a blog post on the security meeting with pics and the listed suggestions:
Flying Across the Seas: The Dark Side of Cruising
Thats a great Blog Post! Better than my report!

Walter has drawn all the points out well in a very readable form.


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Old 14-10-2013, 17:03   #257
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
So, Mark,
You think the oath of allegiance immigrants to the US take when they receive their citizenship is "tripe?" Do you also feel that way about those who swear allegiance to your country . . . Australia? That's a pretty low blow and one that few on this forum have ever taken. I'm sure you don't represent most Australians in your biased remark- a country and people for which I ,personally, have great respect.

Oh gosh no. We went on a club cruise on 9/10 and on 9/11 we held a little ceremony, throwing flowers in the water in remembrance. The fellow from Australia pointed out that he was the only boat out of 10 of 11 that was flying the American flag! He also flew the Australian flag.

I'm not a person opposed to immigration at all, even the ones who get here illegally. They have risked so much to get here -- that kind of determination is a valuable trait in people. If I were against immigration I'd have to be against my own birth. But the pledge they take? spot on. If you aren't willing to defend your new home, go back to your old one.

It sounds like the victims in this case got extraordinarily good care and to me, that would vote in favor of cruising, not against it. It was horrific, but they're going to be OK.
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Old 14-10-2013, 18:01   #258
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Oh gosh no. We went on a club cruise on 9/10 and on 9/11 we held a little ceremony, throwing flowers in the water in remembrance. The fellow from Australia pointed out that he was the only boat out of 10 of 11 that was flying the American flag! He also flew the Australian flag.

I'm not a person opposed to immigration at all, even the ones who get here illegally. They have risked so much to get here -- that kind of determination is a valuable trait in people. If I were against immigration I'd have to be against my own birth. But the pledge they take? spot on. If you aren't willing to defend your new home, go back to your old one.

It sounds like the victims in this case got extraordinarily good care and to me, that would vote in favor of cruising, not against it. It was horrific, but they're going to be OK.


???????????????
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Old 14-10-2013, 18:08   #259
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

At 8:40pm 3 October sailing vessel Rainbow was anchored off Union Island at Frigate Island (aprox 12 34.9882 N 061 26.2582 W) which is attached to Union Island, St Vincent and the Grenadines when two people aboard Mark and Christina were attacked by machete wilding robbers.
Mark
Seems to me we ran across a similar attack while visiting that area about five years ago.

Here's the article link
Caribbean Net News: St Vincent

I did not find anything in the Caribbean News about the Rainbow tho. Perhaps you can give me a link to it?
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Old 14-10-2013, 18:11   #260
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Thats a great Blog Post! Better than my report!

Walter has drawn all the points out well in a very readable form.


Mark
But the second picture caught you eh?

What er you lookin' at?
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Old 14-10-2013, 18:38   #261
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Mark, how are the locals taking all this? Anything that surprised you?
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Old 14-10-2013, 20:26   #262
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Mark, how are the locals taking all this? Anything that surprised you?
The locals on Union Island when Mark went back with the SVG police the day after the attack mobbed him with sorrow for the injuries and congratulations for getting the assailants.

Locals are very supportive because they know their living depends on tourism.
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Old 19-10-2013, 07:54   #263
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Any update on the cruisers or the attackers?
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Old 19-10-2013, 09:40   #264
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Speedy recovery, and hopefully these savages run onto the wrong boat someday and end up as chum in the Atlantic.
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Old 19-10-2013, 09:56   #265
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
Seems to me we ran across a similar attack while visiting that area about five years ago.

Here's the article link
Caribbean Net News: St Vincent

I did not find anything in the Caribbean News about the Rainbow tho. Perhaps you can give me a link to it?
Chateaubelair is on St Vincent not Union, though it's the same country they are quite far apart. Chateaubelair is known to all experienced cruisers of this area as being a do not anchor at night area. It is just below the vast ganja growing areas, the main agricultural produce of SVG. This area is very dangerous to everyone including the local growers. If you go ashore the first village is Petit Bordel and it bears well it's name.

This was a beautiful, quiet anchorage in all but a NNW wind. The situation degraded with the economy in the beginning of this century.
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Old 20-10-2013, 07:20   #266
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Eternal Noob.
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Old 20-10-2013, 14:56   #267
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Came across an interesting blog post. Seems that another cruiser couple was there on another boat during the incident with s/vRainbow. And quietly just.... departed the area.

Here's the link: Boat Karma and the Cruiser's Code: Helping out a Vessel in Trouble | Cruising World
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Old 20-10-2013, 16:58   #268
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

Well, maybe they realized they did not have the skills to help; or maybe kids aboard. I couldn't get the link to work, so forgive me if this is way off base.
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Old 20-10-2013, 17:29   #269
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Re: Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Well, maybe they realized they did not have the skills to help; or maybe kids aboard. I couldn't get the link to work, so forgive me if this is way off base.
The article in the link-


"The other night as we were coming back in the dinghy from our provisioning run, Scott and Luuck noticed a boat was dragging, with a lone sailor at the helm. We all were in one dinghy (women and kids included), so they dropped Darcy and I off on our respective boats with the kiddos and immediately went to the boat in trouble to assist. It was dangerously close to dragging into the unattended boat behind it (and, beyond that, was a reef; Clifton Harbor is not an anchorage to drag in) and time was of the essence. The boys sprung right into action; Scott getting behind the helm and Luuck and the owner heading to the bow to raise the anchor and re-set it. The whole ordeal lasted about an hour from start to finish and the owner (who was alone) was very, very grateful for the help of Scott and Luuck. Our guys even got a couple cold ones out of the deal.
While the story isn't exactly gripping, what it illustrates is one of the cardinal rules of cruising: when you see another boat in trouble, you help because one day, it will be you on the other side of the coin. While those of us lucky enough to live this lifestyle enjoy the ability to reside "off the grid" and outside mainstream society, what this also means is we don't get to enjoy some of the conveniences a developed society affords. We rely on ourselves, and each other, when things go wrong. There's no AAA, no water-based fire department, and no 911 on the water to come to our rescue so when bad things happen - you must rely on yourself and, if you are lucky, the kindness of strangers to get you out of a jam.
Which brings me back to another story. You might recall my post from last week about how some fellow cruisers were brutally attacked in the anchorage next to us. Not 24 hours after that post went "live", I received an email from a close friend of the woman attacked. Apparently Tina (the victim) was curious about the boat I mentioned in that post that had come into our anchorage during dark. Tina had recalled a boat being in their anchorage, but never heard them on the radio (to be fair, it turns out they were on different channels) and saw them shine a light on their boat only to watch them leave immediately after hearing their cries. From Mark and Tina's vantage point, these mystery cruisers had done a "runner" and abandoned them in their moment of need. Reading her email confirmed my initial suspicion, which was a hard pill to swallow. How could someone just leave another person in trouble like that? In landlubber life, this happens all the time. We all pass stranded motorists on the highway and turn a blind eye to the homeless in our cities. But on the water this sort of behavior is taboo.
When we went back to Chatham Bay the next day that boat was still there and Luuck went over to tell them the unfortunate fate of s/v Rainbow, the boat they left after hearing screaming. While they were very upset to hear that there was indeed serious trouble (and not, as they otherwise thought, a domestic dispute), the response of the male was incredibly disturbing. He mentioned that he knew deep down something terrible was happening and he just wanted to "get out of there." Apparently when he was in Brazil, a cruiser on a boat next to him was murdered and, after bearing witness to that, he now believes it's best not to get involved. He made zero apologies for this logic (the woman, on the other hand, was emphatic that they should have done something and was very distraught over the news). To be fair, this man broke no law and was in no legal way obligated to help out, but what he did do is break a deep seated cruiser moral code.
I am not here to incriminate anyone or create a mob against this boat (and it shall remain nameless because I intentionally did not get the name to avoid such a thing), but rather to start a discussion on the subject and get people thinking. What would you do? While we never know exactly what our reactions will be if faced with a similar situation, we can speculate. We all agreed that simply abandoning fellow boaters in peril would not be an option. We went around and around discussing this issue from every angle and we all came to the final conclusion that if the tables were turned, we'd hope that someone would help us. If there was ever a case of "treat others the way you want to be treated", this was the holy grail. We would have assisted in any way we could and certainly wouldn't have left in the midst of screaming.
It should be noted that the cruising community as a whole did come out in droves for Mark and Tina. While no one was physically there to assist them during this tragedy, over the magic of the radio and the substantial Grenada cruisers net, Tina was given immediate medical advice over the radio for her wounds and when they got their boat to safety a few hours later in the neighboring island of Carriacou, medical services were waiting to take them to the hospital. The cruising community has continued to come to their aid in just about every way, shape and form imaginable. Most of us understand that this could have happened to any of us and empathy runs deep amongst cruisers.
So how can we move forward from this? How do we ensure anchorages remain safe for cruisers? How can you help if faced with a similar scenario? Here are a few things we came up with:
1. Always, ALWAYS keep your radio on: Especially at night. Monitor channel 16 and possibly scan other channels if there are popular cruisers' stations in your area. Mark and Tina were hugely assisted by channel 66 which is the Grenada Cruisers channel that many people monitor. Luckily, due to it's popularity, a repeater was added which meant they could reach people all the way in St. Georges from here in the Grenadines (without the repeater this would not have been possible).
2. If you hear trouble, call on the radio first: If there are signs of distress and trouble, try hailing the boat in question on the radio over and over. Try several stations as not everyone only monitors 16.
3. If you don't get the boat in question on the radio, try other boats in the area: Other boats might be aware of the situation as well and able to help. The more boats that can get involved in one way or another - the better. There is safety in numbers.
4. If you know for certain there is trouble, alert every station on the radio: Make a "Pan Pan" (or a "Mayday" if imminent danger is certain) announcement on every major station in your area (starting with 16). The boat in trouble might have their radio on (but not be able to get to it) and a thief or attacker might be scared away by hearing alerts over the airwaves. To do this, follow this radio protocol:
1. "Pan pan, Pan pan, Pan pan ALL STATIONS"
2. "This is sailing vessel 'x' (repeat three times slowly and clearly)"
3. Report position, urgency message, type of assistance required.
4. Listen for acknowledgment. Repeat if necessary.*
5. Have your air horn, spotlight and/or pepper spray handy: We now have all three in our cockpit when we are up there in the evenings and by our bedsides. Criminals do not like loud noises and bright lights. (Please, let's NOT turn this into a gun debate, we do not have guns on board and do not ever plan on having guns on board. Period.)
6. Have flares handy and be sure they are not expired: The boat in trouble might not be able to help themselves if there is a struggle, so setting off a flare for them can be a big help. As an aside, some flare guns can also house shotgun shells and flares themselves can be considered pretty devastating weapons. Our flare gun is stainless steel and can, quite literally, pack a punch - though I am not suggesting that shooting anyone is the answer as sometimes that can just exacerbate a situation. This is a tirelessly debated subject and one I don't care to get into at this juncture.
7. If you are of able body, go assist: It has been decided that if we are ever faced with a situation like this, the men of our boat would assess the situation and assist if possible while the women would stay back with the kids. This option might not be for everyone, and that is okay, but know that there are many ways to help aside from physical intervention. (Tina mentioned that the boat that left their anchorage could have really helped them get their anchor up and get out of there as she was very seriously injured and severely bleeding.)
8. Do what you can in the aftermath: Offer a medical kit, medical advice, make calls on the radio to line up further help and do what you can to soften the blow, so to speak.
What else can be done? Any veteran cruisers' have protocol you would suggest or follow? Please share in the comments so we can all learn some safety standards of procedure (again, let's stay above the "shoot 'em up" debate). The more prepared we are as a whole community, the better equipped we will be to help each other out if and when the time comes.
If you want to read some of the scuttlebutt around this recent attack, you can read this thread on Cruisers Forum. You can also hear more about the attack first hand from Tina through this blog post by her good friend, Lynne.
* Many thanks to our friends from Kaleo for sharing this procedure with us. We have a sheet with all call protocol; securite, pan pan, and mayday laminated and taped in our navigation station."
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Old 20-10-2013, 23:42   #270
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