Vero Beach new ‘Clean Sweep’ policy?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

South Carolina tried to bill me for property tax on my boat even though the boat had never been south of the Mason-Dixon line. When I got the bill the boat was in The Netherlands and remains there. No property or any other annual tax.

The boat is USCG documented and my mailing address was Beaufort, SC, but that didn't give SC the right to charge me property tax on property that has never been in the state.

I am curious to see when I return to the US with NO state registration. I am sure not to stay in one state more than 90 days.

Wow!! That's some serious overreaching

[KP44]

Originally Posted by AA3JY

Any boat found on FL waters with an admission or proof of being in FL for more than 90 days, and without a current FL registration (USCG documentation being irrelevant to them) sticker on its bow can be fined

I think on our documented vessels we are not permitted to display any other numbers. So we display the sticker but no State numbers.

…. it doesn't matter where you're from, whether you're documented or state registered, if you're on FL waters for 90 days, you're expected to buy a registration for FL.

I wonder how commercial vessels are doing if they make several deliveries within a short time to FL ports.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by KP44

I think on our documented vessels we are not permitted to display any other numbers. So we display the sticker but no State numbers.



I wonder how commercial vessels are doing if they make several deliveries within a short time to FL ports.

Commercial vessels generally move a lot, and keep pretty good records.

[mnh]

On the South Carolina issue, I am planning to winter over in Hilton Head from Dec-March. That's more than 90 days for the Fla statutes. Is it 6 months in SC that one needs to register? Any help on this question is much appreciated

Thanks, mnh

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by kapnkarl

For documentation of a trip to international waters (12 miles offshore), hopefully your chartplotter or other nav app retains your tracks and the date. My iPad & Samsung cellphone Navionics apps do keep history of my tracks with that info.

I would not count on that as Florida has some kinda rule that you can't try and subvert the rules. Especially with sales tax if you buy a boat in Florida, leave before the 30 days and then return, even if you have sales receipt for gas from out of state they still will bill you sales tax.

As I posted above compared to a lot of other states Florida is rather easy going about how much you have to pay. Do a CF search on boat property taxes in California; there are some real horror stories.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by kapnkarl

For documentation of a trip to international waters (12 miles offshore), hopefully your chartplotter or other nav app retains your tracks and the date. My iPad & Samsung cellphone Navionics apps do keep history of my tracks with that info.

For Florida, one just needs to not remain in excess of 90 consecutive days to avoid the need for titling and registration, so if you leave the State's waters before or at 90 days, you reset the clock anew and come back into the State waters for yet another 90 consecutive days.

One does not need to travel out to "international" waters, one only needs to have the vessel travel out of the State, by water or by land.

Florida is a bit unique in that the State waters are 3 nautical miles on the Atlantic and 9 nautical miles on the Gulf side.

Ditto as to titling and registration for a motorized dinghy or any size, or any non-motorized boat exceeding 16 feet.

Every State is unique as to compliance. Devil is in the details. Ditto for every country. You know what they say about making assumptions.

Reference map below.

Florida statutes:

328.03 Certificate of title required.—
(1) Each vessel that is operated, used, or stored on the waters of this state must be titled by this state pursuant to this chapter, unless it is:
(a) A vessel operated, used, or stored exclusively on private lakes and ponds;
(b) A vessel owned by the United States Government;
(c) A non-motor-powered vessel less than 16 feet in length;
(d) A federally documented vessel;
(e) A vessel already covered by a registration number in full force and effect which was awarded to it pursuant to a federally approved numbering system of another state or by the United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally approved numbering system, if the vessel is not located in this state for a period in excess of 90 consecutive days;
(f) A vessel from a country other than the United States temporarily used, operated, or stored on the waters of this state for a period that is not in excess of 90 days;
(g) An amphibious vessel for which a vehicle title is issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles;
(h) A vessel used solely for demonstration, testing, or sales promotional purposes by the manufacturer or dealer; or
(i) A vessel owned and operated by the state or a political subdivision thereof.

328.56 Vessel registration number.—Each vessel that is operated, used, or stored on the waters of this state must display a commercial or recreational Florida registration number, unless it is:
(1) A vessel operated, used, and stored exclusively on private lakes and ponds;
(2) A vessel owned by the United States Government;
(3) A vessel used exclusively as a ship’s lifeboat;
(4) A non-motor-powered vessel less than 16 feet in length or a non-motor-powered canoe, kayak, racing shell, or rowing scull, regardless of length;
(5) A federally documented vessel;
(6) A vessel already covered by a registration number in full force and effect which has been awarded to it pursuant to a federally approved numbering system of another state or by the United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally approved numbering system, if the vessel has not been within this state for a period in excess of 90 consecutive days;
(7) A vessel operating under a valid temporary certificate of number;
(8) A vessel from a country other than the United States temporarily using the waters of this state; or
(9) An undocumented vessel used exclusively for racing.
History.—s. 1, ch. 59-399; ss. 2, 3, ch. 61-511; s. 1, ch. 65-361; s. 52, ch. 95-333; s. 56, ch. 96-413; s. 15, ch. 99-289; s. 27, ch. 2000-362; s. 3, ch. 2008-106; s. 24, ch. 2009-86.
Note.—Former s. 371.131; s. 327.15.

328.58 Reciprocity of nonresident or alien vessels.

—The owner of any vessel already covered by a registration number in full force and effect which has been awarded by:
(1) Another state pursuant to a federally approved numbering system of another state;
(2) The United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally approved numbering system; or
(3) The United States Coast Guard for a federally documented vessel with a valid registration in full force and effect from another state,
shall record the number with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles prior to operating, using, or storing the vessel on the waters of this state in excess of the 90-day reciprocity period provided for in this chapter. Such recordation shall be pursuant to the procedure required for the award of an original registration number, except that no additional or substitute registration number shall be issued if the vessel owner maintains the previously awarded registration number in full force and effect.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

I tried to register my boat in FL and have been told I can’t do it.

I need a Bill of Sale and I don’t have one.

I offered to pay the state a sales tax based on the value of the boat but they refused. I need a Bill of Sale and the boat was purchased over 7 years ago and the seller is unavailable.

The only thing I have for a Bill of Sale is the back of the USCG documentation where the boat was sold to me, with no price mentioned.

I have since documented the boat and registered in RI where sales tax is not collected.

I went to the authorities in CT and they sorta’ said, off the record, “Find a Bill of Sale.”

I spoke with MA, (face to face, state tax collector,) he laughed that the other states wouldn’t take my money.

He said he would accept a Bill of Sale and take my money.

(For now I am a MA resident.)

The easiest thing for us is to get out of FL at 90 days or less.

NO BILL OF SALE - Therein lies your problem, it is your problem, own it. It is not the State's problem. The law is extremely straight forward in this regard. I have bold highlighted the most pertinent parts of Florida's statutes below.
And basically this is the same in every State and country.

No ticky, no laundry.

A Bill of Sale is the most important document there is as to providing proof of ownership of anything. Do not lose the original.

328.46 Operation of registered vessels.—

(1) Every vessel that is required to be registered and that is being operated, used, or stored on the waters of this state shall be registered and numbered within 30 days after purchase by the owner except as specifically exempt. During this 30-day period, the operator is required to have aboard the vessel and available for inspection a bill of sale. The bill of sale for the vessel shall serve as the temporary certificate of number that is required by federal law and must contain the following information:
(a) Make of the vessel.
(b) Length of the vessel.
(c) Type of propulsion.
(d) Hull identification number.
(e) A statement declaring Florida to be the state where the vessel is principally used.
(f) Name of the purchaser.
(g) Address of the purchaser, including ZIP code.
(h) Signature of the purchaser.
(i) Name of the seller.
(j) Signature of the seller.
(k) Date of the sale of the vessel. The date of sale shall also serve as the date of issuance of the temporary certificate of number.
(l) Notice to the purchaser and operator that the temporary authority to use the vessel on the waters of this state is invalid after 30 days following the date of sale of the vessel.
(2) No person shall operate, use, or store or give permission for the operation, use, or storage of any such vessel on such waters unless:
(a) Such vessel is registered within 30 days after purchase by the owner and numbered with the identifying number set forth in the certificate of registration, displayed:
1. In accordance with s. 328.48(4), except, if the vessel is an airboat, the registration number may be displayed on each side of the rudder; or
2. In accordance with 33 C.F.R. s. 173.27, or with a federally approved numbering system of another state; and
(b) The certificate of registration or temporary certificate of number awarded to such vessel is in full force and effect.
History.—s. 1, ch. 59-399; s. 1, ch. 65-361; s. 1, ch. 74-62; s. 3, ch. 74-327; s. 3, ch. 81-100; s. 1, ch. 83-102; s. 4, ch. 84-184; s. 49, ch. 95-333; s. 54, ch. 96-413; s. 10, ch. 99-289; s. 22, ch. 2009-86.
Note.—Former s. 371.041; s. 327.10.

328.48 Vessel registration, application, certificate, number, decal, duplicate certificate.—

(1)(a) The owner of each vessel required by this law to pay a registration fee and secure an identification number shall file an application with the county tax collector. The application shall provide the owner’s name and address; residency status; personal or business identification, which may include, but need not be limited to, a driver’s license number, Florida identification card number, or federal employer identification number; and a complete description of the vessel, and shall be accompanied by payment of the applicable fee required in s. 328.72. Registration is not required for any vessel that is not used on the waters of this state.
(b) For purposes of registration, the owner may establish proof of ownership of the vessel by submitting with his or her application an executed bill of sale, a builder’s contract, a manufacturer’s statement of origin, a federal marine document, or any other document acceptable to the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles and presented at the time of registration to the agency issuing the registration certificate.
(2) Each vessel operated, used, or stored on the waters of this state must be registered as a commercial vessel or recreational vessel as defined in s. 327.02, unless it is:
(a) A vessel operated, used, and stored exclusively on private lakes and ponds;
(b) A vessel owned by the United States Government;
(c) A vessel used exclusively as a ship’s lifeboat; or
(d) A non-motor-powered vessel less than 16 feet in length or a non-motor-powered canoe, kayak, racing shell, or rowing scull, regardless of length.
(3) The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles shall issue certificates of registration and numbers for city, county, and state-owned vessels, charging only the service fees required in s. 328.72(7) and (8), provided the vessels are used for purposes other than recreation.
(4) Each certificate of registration issued shall state among other items the numbers awarded to the vessel, the hull identification number, the name and address of the owner, and a description of the vessel, except that certificates of registration for vessels constructed or assembled by the owner registered for the first time shall state all the foregoing information except the hull identification number. The numbers shall be placed on each side of the forward half of the vessel in such position as to provide clear legibility for identification, except, if the vessel is an airboat, the numbers may be placed on each side of the rudder. The numbers awarded to the vessel shall read from left to right and shall be in block characters of good proportion not less than 3 inches in height. The numbers shall be of a solid color which will contrast with the color of the background and shall be so maintained as to be clearly visible and legible; i.e., dark numbers on a light background or light numbers on a dark background. The certificate of registration shall be pocket-sized and shall be available for inspection on the vessel for which issued whenever such vessel is in operation.
(5) A decal signifying the year or years during which the certificate is valid shall be furnished by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles with each registration certificate issued. The decal issued to an undocumented vessel shall be displayed by affixing it to the port (left) side of the vessel within 6 inches before or after the registration number. The decal issued to a documented vessel shall be placed on the port (left) side of the vessel and may be affixed to a window or the windshield on the port (left) side of the vessel in lieu of being placed on the hull. A decal issued to a dealer shall be affixed, with the registration number, to a removable sign pursuant to s. 328.52(2). Any decal for a previous year shall be removed from a vessel operating on the waters of the state.
(6) When a vessel decal has been stolen, the owner of the vessel for which the decal was issued shall make application to the department for a replacement. The application shall contain the decal number being replaced and a statement that the item was stolen. If the application includes a copy of the police report prepared in response to a report of a stolen decal, such decal shall be replaced at no charge.
(7) Any decal lost in the mail may be replaced at no charge. The service charge shall not be applied to this replacement; however, the application for a replacement shall contain a statement of such fact, the decal number, and the date issued.
(8) Anyone guilty of falsely certifying any facts relating to application, certificate, transfer, number, decal, duplicate, or replacement certificates or any information required under this section shall be punished as provided under this chapter.

328.09 Refusal to issue and authority to cancel a certificate of title or registration.—

(1) If the department determines at any time that an applicant for a certificate of title or registration gave a false statement or false or incomplete information in applying for the certificate or otherwise failed to comply with the applicable provisions pertaining to the application for a certificate, it may refuse to issue the certificate.
(2) If the department determines at any time that an owner or dealer named in a certificate of title or registration gave a false statement or false or incomplete information in applying for the certificate or otherwise failed to comply with the applicable provisions pertaining to the application for a certificate, it may cancel the certificate.
(3) The department may cancel any pending application or any certificate if it determines that any title or registration fee or sales tax pertaining to such registration has not been paid, provided such fee or tax is not paid upon reasonable notice.

Linked below is to the standard USCG Bill of Sale Document which every USA boat purchaser would be wise to prepare and have executed when they purchase a boat. If has all the specific data fields to complete.

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/D...-09-113141-317

[Montanan]

NO BILL OF SALE.

The States will have you jump through some significant hoops if you have lost your title and Bill of Sale. Overcoming the lack of documentation, is not a journey to the end of the world, but half way to that distance.

By way of example linked below is the procedures for the State of Virginia.

http://https://www.dgif.virginia.gov...T/BOAT-004.pdf

INSTRUCTIONS
“AFFIDAVIT FOR TRANSFER OF WATERCRAFT REGISTRATION/TITLE”
As Required by §29.1-733.7 of the Code of Virginia

This procedure is required to be followed when the applicant for Watercraft Registration/Title is unable to present a Certificate of Title by reason of the same being lost or unlawfully detained by the titled owner(s). This affidavit is also required if the watercraft was not previously titled, and the applicant is unable to present a bill of sale or a change in status form signed by the last registered owner(s).
The applicant(s) must take the following steps before applying for registration/title in his/her name:

Four pages of detail steps and documents.

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by kapnkarl

For documentation of a trip to international waters (12 miles offshore), hopefully your chartplotter or other nav app retains your tracks and the date. My iPad & Samsung cellphone Navionics apps do keep history of my tracks with that info.

Presuming that you could prove you sailed into international waters (easy if you have AIS, and show recording on one of the independent traffic tracking sites), I would wonder if FL would regard this as having "left" for this purpose ? Perhaps you'd need to show you entered some other jurisdiction as well?

It sounds like what's needed is a regular travel plan - like US expats living in Costa Rica who make short trips to Panama or Nicaragua every 3 months. Not such a bad thing.....I always like a good excuse for a road trip or cruise....

[freedom 32]

For those who decide to register in fl:
-fees aren't uniform across the state, it may save you to shop
-for me Indian River (Vero Beach) was cheaper than Monroe (the Keys)
-boats older than 30 years pay no registration, only fees
-I recently purchased a 2 year renewal for $7.50

I live in Vero but keep my boat in the lower keys.
So I feel your pain but I'm not really effected by the problem. Without making judgement, I can say I have heard worst story's from other states.

First hand, the DM is making noticeable improvements in his first few months.

BTW, I will pass your concerns to my son on the marina commission.

[mjscottinnc]

I'm sure this will be unpopular, but if I were a resident of FL, on the hard or on the boat, I would FULLY support this 90 Day register and pay us thing. As a deterrent and/or means of condemnation so that any abandond boat could be confiscated and removed.

On my last trip the the Bahamas I was astounded by the number of derelict, abandoned, and left behind while the owner traveled boats anchored in and around the waterways. What a blight on the cruising boating community.

Sorry, there is absolutely no justification for this, it looks like a garbage heap.

[jlblan2]

If your boat is older that 30 years, it is considered an antique in Florida and the only fee is a processing fee of about $2.00 for the Florida Sticker. Automobiles, in Florida, are handled the same way. I have a 1984 Endeavour and the sticker was so cheap that I can't remember the exact amount.

[capn_billl]

The RI registration, and USCG documentation, should be sufficient, if not find another clerk, or ask for supervisor.

I only used my Texas registration.

The first clerk I got didn't know what to do, so fortunately they got another one who did.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Montanan

NO BILL OF SALE.

The States will have you jump through some significant hoops if you have lost your title and Bill of Sale. Overcoming the lack of documentation, is not a journey to the end of the world, but half way to that distance.

By way of example linked below is the procedures for the State of Virginia.

http://https://www.dgif.virginia.gov...T/BOAT-004.pdf

INSTRUCTIONS
“AFFIDAVIT FOR TRANSFER OF WATERCRAFT REGISTRATION/TITLE”
As Required by §29.1-733.7 of the Code of Virginia

This procedure is required to be followed when the applicant for Watercraft Registration/Title is unable to present a Certificate of Title by reason of the same being lost or unlawfully detained by the titled owner(s). This affidavit is also required if the watercraft was not previously titled, and the applicant is unable to present a bill of sale or a change in status form signed by the last registered owner(s).
The applicant(s) must take the following steps before applying for registration/title in his/her name:

Four pages of detail steps and documents.

You don't need a bill of sale if you have a title, it's redundant given that the bill of sale was required in order to get the CG Doc in the first place. If you run into a clerk who doesn't grasp this, escalate to a supervisor who does.

[Sonas]

In just spent some time at Vero Beach Marina on the way to and from the Bahamas. We spoke to the dockmaster both times and he has been there for quite a while - he is not new.

Plus can someone please explain to me what this guys issue is with Vero Beach? I guess I missed the marina side of this?

BTW, he has posted this on numerous sites across the web. Seems he has a bit of a vengeance going on!

[hello BTW]