Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-11-2014, 08:42   #46
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

Quote:
Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
Clearly the Captain's error, but everyone can make a mistake. I'm sure plenty here have had a line caught in a prop before.
Not me! I never have!

(Okay, I'm lying. How about this? I haven't done it this year.)
__________________

__________________
Cruising again!
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2014, 13:49   #47
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: 1999 Leopard 45, 45 foot cat, 1980 Hunter 33, 33 foot monohull
Posts: 405
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

I guess it is fair to say that we have all done things that are foolish. I certainly have. And hopefully, we all learn something from others' mistakes, let alone our own. But that did not make those actions seamanlike, trivial, or excusable. I feel sympathy for the crew and am glad they survived. I feel even more sympathy for the owner, the charter company, and all those who have chartered that boat for their coming Christmas and New Year's vacations, now spoiled. All that said, however, that reef is very apparent on a chartplotter, well marked on a chart, and well noted and warned about in the various cruising guides. It IS a lee shore in these conditions, but there are decent anchoring spots inside. But, is it too much to ask a "very experienced" crew, particularly one unfamiliar with the waters, to do their "due diligence" and look at their chart and read their cruising guide BEFORE getting into this fix, and then to keep an eye on their chartplotter since they would have been forewarned? And, in such conditions, to be checking their boat for dangerous situations like lines overboard? Particularly if they were either leaving or entering a tight entrance? Are we not supposed to be thinking ahead? It was extremely rough that day, and for the days thereafter. It had been well forecast, so no surprises here. They were entrusted with someone's 45 foot yacht. It is true that disasters usually involve many components, any one of which is not by itself fatal, but in this case I think it is pretty obvious that the crew committed quite a number, all by themselves. I think hubris is a good word to use in this incident, but wonder if it more aptly pertains to the crew than to any of the commentators.

I may seem a bit cynical here, but I instruct and skipper a crewed charter yacht in the BVI, and what I have seen from allegedly experienced crew beggars the imagination. I will never forget personally pointing out the reef in the middle of Trellis Bay to a charter crew, having them confirm they saw it, and then seeing them raising anchor and sailing right onto it. I happened to be in a night spot later that day when some of the members of that crew were discussing their day with friends. They said they just touched the bottom and it was no consequence....NOT! Later, I found that the keel had almost come off and had to be dropped and the supporting structure completely reglassed.

When the trades and seas are up, even the most experienced need to pay close attention, check out things in advance, and keep the stuff aboard that should be aboard. And, if it is a much bigger and more powerful boat than the charterers are used to normally sailing (which is usually the case), all this goes double. They rented the boat, they didn't buy it, and that implies all sorts of obligations.
__________________

__________________
contrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2014, 18:02   #48
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

Contrail,
I hear what your saying and of course we all should be vigilant in our sailing. But things just happen, whether sailing, driving, flying, walking, or absolutely anything, just like this:
Team Vestas hits reef


It's why they call them "accidents" not "intentionals". It's amazing, but not surprising to me how fast a small problem can escalate in certain situations and conversely how a major problem can have zero repercussions.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 04:41   #49
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

Look how much experience most people have driving cars. And, yet, we still manage to wreck them up good on a regular basis. And how many of those are rental cars?

I think the charter companies know that they are going to lose a boat every once in a while and the smart companies figure that into their overhead. I think they would rather do that, than cull out marginal crews and lose the money they could make on them.
__________________
Cruising again!
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 05:53   #50
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,054
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
I think the charter companies know that they are going to lose a boat every once in a while and the smart companies figure that into their overhead. I think they would rather do that, than cull out marginal crews and lose the money they could make on them.
And we all get to enjoy higher insurance rates because of it
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2014, 06:23   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
And we all get to enjoy higher insurance rates because of it
No - those are businesses and insurance companies set rates based on their specific actuarials and separate from those of private use.

Just like you don't pay liability insurance that reflect rates set using lawsuits against corporations.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2014, 20:31   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hillsborough, N.C. (Boat located: Tortola, BVI)
Boat: Lagoon 42
Posts: 134
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

Spoke to someone with direct knowledge of the grounding and events leading up to it. The charter captain called the charter base the day before the grounding because the dinghy had flipped over while being towed. (I assume with outboard attached) A chase boat was sent out with a replacement dinghy and retrieved the flipped dinghy. The chase boat crew reported that the dinghy flipped because it was being towed too closely to the boat in rough seas. The chase boat crew also pointed out to the charter captain that he had a jib sheet in the water. The charter captain was not receptive to the chase boat crew's suggestions about proper towing techniques nor was he concerned about his sheet in the water.

The next day the charter captain called the base and indicated a line had wrapped around the prop and killed the engine. The rudder had also been disabled by the line. The boat was without steerage and in a dire situation. As the charter base tried to give the charter captain instructions/suggestions the call ended abruptly. The charter base could not reestablish contact with the charter captain or crew. The next call received by the charter base was from Sea Tow and then the CG reporting that the boat was hard aground on rocks near Ramshead, entering Coral Bay.

This information was from a person who spoke directly to the charter captain, chase boat crew, Sea Tow, and CG. I believe this recitation of events to be accurate, and raises genuine concerns about the competency of the charter captain. I consider myself to be a generally competent sailor. I have sailed in the Med as well as in the Caribbean from the USVI to Grenada. I also have blue water experience, have owned a small coastal cruising sailboat for 10+ years. It doesn't seem the charter captain demonstrated any level of reasonable seamanship. Allowing a towed dinghy to flip, ignoring the chase boat crew's suggestions, and allowing a jib sheet to trail in the water on at least two occasions while experiencing rough but not overly demanding conditions is poor seamanship.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Jim Woodall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2014, 07:36   #53
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

I don't know why things went so badly for this charter boat captain this time.

Last year, things went much better for him!

__________________
Cruising again!
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2014, 08:14   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: somewhere in Mexico
Boat: 99 Island Packet 380
Posts: 203
Re: USCG Helicopter Rescue of Charter Boat Passangers in USVI

Jim,

We were there that day and heard the same story, as we returned our charter yacht to Red Hook. The mechanic was trying to clean all the water out of the outboard that was brought back. I remember trying to figure out how you flip a dinghy when towing it. As other have mentioned conditions weren't great, but they weren't that bad. Visibility was often poor, with all the squalls rolling through. Clearly the biggest mistake was being way too close to a lee shore though.
__________________

__________________
John
s/v Nakamal
azsailor12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charter, rescue

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Arctic Helicopter Crash Update svmariane Polar Regions 4 28-09-2013 15:12
Crew Available: Helicopter Pilot robertob3 Crew Archives 0 31-05-2012 08:41
Crew Available: Helicopter and Jet Pilot Shevy03 Crew Archives 0 30-08-2011 13:27
Helicopter Crash on Newfoundland's Grand Banks GordMay Cruising News & Events 4 14-03-2009 05:19
Rescue Swimmers (USCG) - Yikes! David_Old_Jersey Health, Safety & Related Gear 21 07-11-2008 08:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:19.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.