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Old 08-10-2015, 11:38   #31
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

Here is another idea: Just fly into Marsh Harbour and charter a Moorings power cat. Chart-plotter, twin diesels, shallow draft, done deal. Considering fuel to get from FL to the Abacos, and the weather windows possibly required, a one-week charter would probably cost less. Great fun to pain to cost ratio. Consider it.
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:25   #32
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Cornelius,
Whenever the word "Racism" is invoked in a conversation, as you have done, it almost always refers to "White Racism." It is used by those who intend to derail a legitimate conversation/discussion based upon personal opinions, facts or even heresay when the conversation opposes politically correct ideology imposed by our mass media, government or thought police. It almost always defies logic and reason and is usually charged when the accuser can no longer intellectually defend his/her opinion and hopes that this will, once and for all, end the discussion or shame the recipient of this invective. It is almost always aimed at denigrating White Europeans worldwide(Americans/Australians, NZ's, SA's included),where ironically, we should in some peverse way be ashamed of our great Western Civilization and Cultural Ideas that we have given to the world in the arenas of Science, Art, Literature, Philosophy, Music and Technology. But the greatest peversion of this concept is that it is rarely, if ever, used to describe those who openly promote Racism against us while chanting Black Power, Chicano Power, Indian Power as they call for the end to European Civilization, as we know it, worldwide. This, of course, is the illogical double standard where all people are not judged equally and fairly. It really smacks of what some contemporary philosophers refer to as White Genocide. . . . where Racism against Europeans worldwide, in its purest form, is acceptable because it is politically correct and fashionable among the world's "intellectual elites"--read Socialists, and will ultimately serve to overthrow the status quo and create a New World Order with them holdings the reigns. So, Cornelius, if you have decided to be the town crier of Racism in the Bahamas and worldwide whereby you have elected yourself as the judge, jury and executioner, you must realize that by doing so you are stifling free speech and the free flow of ideas that characterize our great Western Civilization. And, in regards to apologies, if one is due it should be by you to Tim, who with no obvious mal-intent, but only a desire to express a valid, honest personal opinion about his experiences in the Abacos, was called a Racist. Sounds like a double standard to me . . . but then I'm not using the race card.
This is the biggest pile of crap I've seen in a long time. And I read Cruisers' Forum regularly.
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:34   #33
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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This is the biggest pile of crap I've seen in a long time. And I read Cruisers' Forum regularly.

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Old 08-10-2015, 12:38   #34
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Here is another idea: Just fly into Marsh Harbour and charter a Moorings power cat. Chart-plotter, twin diesels, shallow draft, done deal. Considering fuel to get from FL to the Abacos, and the weather windows possibly required, a one-week charter would probably cost less. Great fun to pain to cost ratio. Consider it.
You're right on all points, but from my personal mindset, it's like cheating. I want to take my own boat. Which includes boat selection and purchase, maintenance, upgrades, trip planning, and then execution. It's all part of it. I would enjoy the beauty of the Abacos doing what you suggested, but it's just not the same if I'm not doing it on my boat.
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Old 08-10-2015, 14:21   #35
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by Sun and Moon View Post
This is the biggest pile of crap I've seen in a long time. And I read Cruisers' Forum regularly.

Sun and Moon,

As a regular reader of this Forum, perhaps you and Tayana42 could explain why you feel this way. I'm certain our readers would benefit from a more intelligent and pointed response than the one you posted above. I anxiously await your rebuttal. Rognvald
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Old 08-10-2015, 14:34   #36
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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I anxiously await your rebuttal. Rognvald
And I would appreciate that rebuttal happening in a different thread. While spin-off topics happen naturally, I'd like to keep this thread on the original topic. I'm not commenting on the validity of the additional topic, just that I don't want to lose further discussion on my question. Thanks.
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:55   #37
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Cornelius,
Whenever the word "Racism" is invoked in a conversation, as you have done, it almost always refers to "White Racism." It is used by those who intend to derail a legitimate conversation/discussion based upon personal opinions, facts or even heresay when the conversation opposes politically correct ideology imposed by our mass media, government or thought police. It almost always defies logic and reason and is usually charged when the accuser can no longer intellectually defend his/her opinion and hopes that this will, once and for all, end the discussion or shame the recipient of this invective. It is almost always aimed at denigrating White Europeans worldwide(Americans/Australians, NZ's, SA's included),where ironically, we should in some peverse way be ashamed of our great Western Civilization and Cultural Ideas that we have given to the world in the arenas of Science, Art, Literature, Philosophy, Music and Technology. But the greatest peversion of this concept is that it is rarely, if ever, used to describe those who openly promote Racism against us while chanting Black Power, Chicano Power, Indian Power as they call for the end to European Civilization, as we know it, worldwide. This, of course, is the illogical double standard where all people are not judged equally and fairly. It really smacks of what some contemporary philosophers refer to as White Genocide. . . . where Racism against Europeans worldwide, in its purest form, is acceptable because it is politically correct and fashionable among the world's "intellectual elites"--read Socialists, and will ultimately serve to overthrow the status quo and create a New World Order with them holdings the reigns. So, Cornelius, if you have decided to be the town crier of Racism in the Bahamas and worldwide whereby you have elected yourself as the judge, jury and executioner, you must realize that by doing so you are stifling free speech and the free flow of ideas that characterize our great Western Civilization. And, in regards to apologies, if one is due it should be by you to Tim, who with no obvious mal-intent, but only a desire to express a valid, honest personal opinion about his experiences in the Abacos, was called a Racist. Sounds like a double standard to me . . . but then I'm not using the race card.

rognvald Thanks for your support and I totally agree with everything you said. However, we won't get anywhere with Cornelius's political correctness crap. Like you said, some people live in a different world. After all this is a forum about the Keys versus Bahamas!! I vote Bahamas!
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Old 09-10-2015, 16:00   #38
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

I for have single handed the bahamas for 30 yrs, then 12 married, on a 35ft boat, 4ft draft, w/ 3gm30 yanmar engine. central & south, best, less boats, exhumas park, stanial key, black point, and way south, clarence iown. this is further away but less crowded, people wecome you, If you are near the ocean get a sail boat, expanded horizens , less fuel, 1/2 mpg motor sailing handles weather better, SV RAGGEDY ANN
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Old 09-10-2015, 20:05   #39
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

Both the Bahamas and the Keys are completely different places in season than in the summer. Not just the issue of hurricanes but completely different weather. Lots of folks simply head North in April or May and return in October or November. It gets hot in both places and not lots of boats have AC. On the other hand the winter waiting for a weather window can be long and boring. There is also the issue of the difference in the Abacos and the Exumas in the winter. Some folks find the Abacos too cold and the cold fronts have a lot more power there than they do as you go South.

Not saying no one cruises in either place in the summer, just that there is a big difference in season.
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Old 09-10-2015, 20:31   #40
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The Keys vs Abacos

When I lived in Marsh Harbour it was some of the Conky Joes that you had to watch out for.
There are good and bad people everywhere and cultures clash. Listen to a. Bahamian talk about Haitians and you will see that there is no PC in that country.
In Antigua where I live .... Yesterday, I was driving in town minding my own business and a Rasta started yelling at me "time to start killing all the whiteys"
I just kept in driving.



Why can't things remain where i carelessly left them?
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Old 09-10-2015, 21:48   #41
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
You are confusing a disdain for political correctness with simple racism. "Abaco blacks are great rural, honest, friendly people. I never locked anything for 40 years going there." This is a racist statement. It implies that blacks in general are thieves, but, the "Abaco blacks" are a refreshing exception among their race.

Let me illustrate this sentiment in another way: would you go up to an "Abaco black" and say, "You Abaco blacks are really great people, I don't even have to lock my doors!"

You said yourself "Intelligent discourse allows contrary opinions and ideas." I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm giving my opinion about these statements. This has nothing to do with the "PC" police: I'm not asking for an apology, nor suggesting any kind of censorship. I'm just making my case. And I defend your right to disagree with me (and I won't even accuse you of being brainwashed, as you did me).
Ye doth protest too much me thinks. Some one is way too hung up on race. One nice thing about the Bahamas is no racism. There are cultural differences between black and white Bahamians, but those differences are embraced. I once had a Bahamian who happened to be black tell me that he didn't understand the issue that American blacks had with the "N" word, though he said the whole thing. He said "That's what I am." This racism crap is an american hang up. You won't find anything like it in the Bahamas. Please do us all a favor if you ever go to the Bahamas, leave your racist hangups where ever you come from.
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:56   #42
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by Travis McGee View Post
Here is another idea: Just fly into Marsh Harbour and charter a Moorings power cat. Chart-plotter, twin diesels, shallow draft, done deal. Considering fuel to get from FL to the Abacos, and the weather windows possibly required, a one-week charter would probably cost less. Great fun to pain to cost ratio. Consider it.
Unfortunately you are absolutely right in my case. Marina slip rent for a 38' Lagoon Cat in or around Marsh Harbor is roughly $1000 per month. You have to put your boat in a marina if you leave, or the thieves might strip it. Possibly a mooring ball owner would have enough power to protect you from theft?? Then there's the cost and time of getting the boat there.

Maybe I come out ahead when leaving the boat there from December through July, at $1000 per month slip rent, but only if I come and use it for a week per month?

You make a very good point. My wife tried to make that point as well, but obviously I didn't listen. If I added up the past ten years of costs of ownership, I probably could have chartered a 100'+ yacht with crew??

Having said all of that, boat ownership is my "Exit Strategy", AND THAT'S PRICELESS!!
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Old 10-10-2015, 17:01   #43
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

Biggest difference. There are MANY deserted islands in the Abacos, almost NONE in the Keys. I have spent the last 35 years going to both places. I prefer the Abacos.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:40   #44
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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rognvald Thanks for your support and I totally agree with everything you said. However, we won't get anywhere with Cornelius's political correctness crap. Like you said, some people live in a different world. After all this is a forum about the Keys versus Bahamas!! I vote Bahamas!

Tim, I agree with Rongnvald that I owe you an apology (however, this is the only thing on which he and I agree). I didn't mean to suggest that you were a racist, I just found some of your comments a little indelicate. I came at the whole thing a little heavy-handed and that wasn't fair to you. For that, I apologize. Obviously, you have a well rounded, common sense view of the situation, which I think is similar to my own experiences in the Bahamas. I reread your post, and found your observations to be pretty much spot-on about the current situation. I agree that there is a serious problem of illegal immigration from Haiti, and it is threatening much of what we both love about the Abacos.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:14   #45
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Ye doth protest too much me thinks. Some one is way too hung up on race. One nice thing about the Bahamas is no racism. There are cultural differences between black and white Bahamians, but those differences are embraced. I once had a Bahamian who happened to be black tell me that he didn't understand the issue that American blacks had with the "N" word, though he said the whole thing. He said "That's what I am." This racism crap is an american hang up. You won't find anything like it in the Bahamas. Please do us all a favor if you ever go to the Bahamas, leave your racist hangups where ever you come from.
I've been many times, thanks. The next time you are in Marsh Harbour ask a black man or woman their thoughts about being on Man-O-War Cay after sunset.

I would venture to guess that American Blacks have good reasons to be offended by the "N" word, however, since I am a privileged white man, (who owns a very, very nice sailboat), it's not my place to make assumptions about their experiences.
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