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Old 06-10-2015, 11:26   #16
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

Great info provided by everyone. However, based upon your cruising experience . . . my vote ,for you, is the Florida Keys. There's everything you want and more if you're willing to get off the beaten path. And, if you need help, it's a relatively short distance away. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:12   #17
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
I understand that you are making a distinction between the Haitians and the Bahamians -fair enough - different cultures/ countries/ languages. But what do you mean by "Abacos Blacks"? I agree with what you say, the indigenous Abaconians are fantastic folks (The Abacos has both white and black families that go back to the 1700s, and they are all proud to be Bahamians). But why the distinction? Are you saying the black Bahamians are in a different moral classification from the white Bahamians? I'm not sure it's wise to make broad generalizations based on race, even if you you are talking about positive qualities.

Oh, boy . . . it doesn't take long before the PC Police have reared their heads and condemn a person for his personal and, God forbid, contrary views. We all know, Cornelius, that all people are the same and there are no differences among populations in the world or even in a given country, right? American Whites, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Muslims are all exactly the same and there are no cultural differences or practices among them. They're all Americans, right? How could it be possible that the Bahamians Blacks are different from the Haitian Blacks or Bahamian Whites? They all think the same, right? . . . live the same, are educated similarly and therefore, there are no differences. This is not a real world in which you live but one in which you have been thoroughly brainwashed and indoctrinated to a One World mentality. Your world is the "imagined Utopian world" and there is a great divide between it and the "real world." Before you warn another about making broad generalizations, I think you need to look to yourself and ask who appointed you to Captain of the Thought Police? I think Tim's response was an honest one and, in my opinion, no malice was intended. This a forum of ideas and Tim honestly presented his in a honest, forthright way. Intelligent discourse allows contrary opinions and ideas. Otherwise, we revert to a world reminiscent of Stalin and Chairman Mao. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:26   #18
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

the Bahamas have a high priced cruising permit. they don't have a lot of cops but those you may meet will be dirty and expensive. do not annoy them. others have addressed the theft problem. it is bad. my 2 cents, start with the Keys, no culture shock or permit issues, lots to see and do, support infrastructure almost everywhere. save the deserted beaches for after you have more experience.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:32   #19
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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I have a new to me, Sea Ray 300 Weekender (twin 350s) with a goal of doing some island hopping.
What is your total fuel tankage, cruise speed, and gallons per hour burn @ that cruise speed on that bad boy?
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:43   #20
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

I've been to the Abacos three times. One time I waited for a weather window 34 days -- just to get over to the Bahama Bank. Some friends of mine waited 6 weeks in Lake Worth. And then there's Whale inlet which has a window too.

In other words, it's a big commitment time-wise and doesn't sound like that fact would be to your liking.

It also can get dicey out there in the Gulf Stream and towing services are hard if not impossible to get.

Try the Keys.

Vicki
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:47   #21
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Oh, boy . . . it doesn't take long before the PC Police have reared their heads and condemn a person for his personal and, God forbid, contrary views. We all know, Cornelius, that all people are the same and there are no differences among populations in the world or even in a given country, right? American Whites, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Muslims are all exactly the same and there are no cultural differences or practices among them. They're all Americans, right? How could it be possible that the Bahamians Blacks are different from the Haitian Blacks or Bahamian Whites? They all think the same, right? . . . live the same, are educated similarly and therefore, there are no differences. This is not a real world in which you live but one in which you have been thoroughly brainwashed and indoctrinated to a One World mentality. Your world is the "imagined Utopian world" and there is a great divide between it and the "real world." Before you warn another about making broad generalizations, I think you need to look to yourself and ask who appointed you to Captain of the Thought Police? I think Tim's response was an honest one and, in my opinion, no malice was intended. This a forum of ideas and Tim honestly presented his in a honest, forthright way. Intelligent discourse allows contrary opinions and ideas. Otherwise, we revert to a world reminiscent of Stalin and Chairman Mao. Good luck and good sailing.


Amen...
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Old 06-10-2015, 14:33   #22
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

Politically correct - crap
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Old 06-10-2015, 14:38   #23
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by vlathom View Post
I've been to the Abacos three times. One time I waited for a weather window 34 days -- just to get over to the Bahama Bank. Some friends of mine waited 6 weeks in Lake Worth. And then there's Whale inlet which has a window too.

In other words, it's a big commitment time-wise and doesn't sound like that fact would be to your liking.

It also can get dicey out there in the Gulf Stream and towing services are hard if not impossible to get.

Try the Keys.

Vicki
Good point about waiting for weather Windows. Throw your calendar out. Weather dictates your schedule.
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Old 06-10-2015, 15:24   #24
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

All interesting to me, but I'll be outbound to the Abacos shortly. I have had it with the US police state, and have always preferred a little less interest in my presence and plans to greater "safety", etc. That said, I love the US, and hope it will return to it pre-1980 state someday. Meantime, I'm outboutbound soon.
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Old 06-10-2015, 15:58   #25
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
SNIP

Your asking the question suggest to me that your best choice would be the Keys. But if you provide additional details on what you are expecting to do I might change my mind.
I still would need to know more about the OP to feel comfortable answering his question. But if someone shows any reluctance about a cruising destination my stock answer is to choose another cruising destination that they think is easier.

That being said I would add that there are LEOs in the Keys but there are also lots of places where you will not see another boat, especially in the back country. As to water clarity my rule of thumb is in the Keys you get 20 good days a month and in the Bahamas you get 25+ good days a month. But for a lot of folks who are not serious divers this is a non issue. Once you get West of Key West it is a lot more like the Bahamas in terms of vis. The thing is every time there is a storm it will stir stuff up and the vis suffers whether you are in the Keys or the Bahamas.

Not trying to say a trip to the Bahamas is not worth it. There are big advantages to crossing the Gulf Stream and getting to the Islands. It is true Haitians have caused some real problems and I would try and avoid them. But crime is worse in the bigger towns than in more remote places. And let's not forget there is also crime in the Keys. Plenty of Haitians come to the US and there are folks who come down from Miami-Dade county to the Keys and commit crimes.

Another real consideration for me is time of year. Lots of folks like the Abaco, but think when the fronts start hitting it is time to head South to the Exumas and warmer weather.

Bottom line for me is the Keys is a no brainer cruising ground while the Bahamas takes more planning, money, and skill. Not saying the Bahamas requires a lot of blue water skills, just that it requires more than the Keys.
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Old 06-10-2015, 16:00   #26
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

I took my shake down cruise from central Florida in the Keys before crossing to the Bahamas and I was glad I did. I needed some replacement parts that were easy to get in the Keys but would have been hard to get in the Bahamas. Of course, at that point I had time to do both. Time permitting, I would do Keys first and Bahamas second. There are lots of nice places to cruise in the Keys. On the other hand, if I only had time for one, I'd take my chances and do the Abacos - it's just cooler - you're in an exotic, foreign country and, Dude, you're cruising!
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Old 06-10-2015, 16:36   #27
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

I love all the great comments and opinions on CF. CF forum is the best. Speak your mind, be as honest as you can be. We all know everyone is imperfect, we all know there are good and bad people in the world.

I must say it was a little bit of a hassle to cross to Grand Abaco, but once you are there it is a magical place. Green turtle Cay, Hopetown, Marsh Harbour, all magical.

You could scope the place out by just going over as a tourist. Fly to marsh Harbour with an airplane, take a dayboat and go fishing. Do a charter for a couple of days.
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Old 07-10-2015, 19:06   #28
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

Wow! Thanks for all of the great feedback. Lots to still consider, but after reading these opinions of the two locations - I lean towards Bahamas in some form (Berry Islands was a great suggestion). I'm going to answer some specific questions below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
What is your total fuel tankage, cruise speed, and gallons per hour burn @ that cruise speed on that bad boy?
I haven't run it long enough to figure fuel burn, but I know what others with the same boat have reported. My tankage is 200 gallons. Cruise speed is 18-22 knots, and mpg is reported to be around 1.2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
I still would need to know more about the OP to feel comfortable answering his question. But if someone shows any reluctance about a cruising destination my stock answer is to choose another cruising destination that they think is easier.
I agree with your first post when you said it kinda depends on my definition of cruising. Great point. Without having to copying from multiple posts, everything someone said in this thread about the Bahamas is how I like to cruise. Remote beauty, swimming (snorkeling/diving) in crystal clear water, enjoying a different culture, a slower pace. Avoiding the police state in the U.S., etc.

My question didn't mean to infer reluctance. This is all just part of the planning stage (and I enjoy this part too). I was planning out a route and started to calculate how many hundreds of gallons of fuel I'd need when I thought, "I don't really know anything about the Keys. I wonder if cruising there is like cruising South Florida, or like Southwest Bahamas." If the consensus was that most people can't tell a difference, I might consider the Keys as an alternate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Bottom line for me is the Keys is a no brainer cruising ground while the Bahamas takes more planning, money, and skill. Not saying the Bahamas requires a lot of blue water skills, just that it requires more than the Keys.
Again, all of that sounds great (except for the money part). I don't mind the $150 entrance fee. That's a one-time hit to be in a different country. I know checking in can sometimes be a hassle, but I look forward to that too. It's all apart of the experience. I'm just comparing $1,000 for fuel versus $3,000. And I'm not worried about the skills. I know a lot, have experience, and most importantly - respect the dangers and challenges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triples View Post
I took my shake down cruise from central Florida in the Keys before crossing to the Bahamas and I was glad I did. I needed some replacement parts that were easy to get in the Keys but would have been hard to get in the Bahamas. Of course, at that point I had time to do both. Time permitting, I would do Keys first and Bahamas second. There are lots of nice places to cruise in the Keys. On the other hand, if I only had time for one, I'd take my chances and do the Abacos - it's just cooler - you're in an exotic, foreign country and, Dude, you're cruising!
I haven't made up my mind, and this sounds like a good game plan, but the last sentence is why I might end up disappointed if I trailer all the way to South Florida and then don't get to do the cooler, exotic, foreign country thing!
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Old 07-10-2015, 21:06   #29
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Oh, boy . . . it doesn't take long before the PC Police have reared their heads and condemn a person for his personal and, God forbid, contrary views. We all know, Cornelius, that all people are the same and there are no differences among populations in the world or even in a given country, right? American Whites, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Muslims are all exactly the same and there are no cultural differences or practices among them. They're all Americans, right? How could it be possible that the Bahamians Blacks are different from the Haitian Blacks or Bahamian Whites? They all think the same, right? . . . live the same, are educated similarly and therefore, there are no differences. This is not a real world in which you live but one in which you have been thoroughly brainwashed and indoctrinated to a One World mentality. Your world is the "imagined Utopian world" and there is a great divide between it and the "real world." Before you warn another about making broad generalizations, I think you need to look to yourself and ask who appointed you to Captain of the Thought Police? I think Tim's response was an honest one and, in my opinion, no malice was intended. This a forum of ideas and Tim honestly presented his in a honest, forthright way. Intelligent discourse allows contrary opinions and ideas. Otherwise, we revert to a world reminiscent of Stalin and Chairman Mao. Good luck and good sailing.
You are confusing a disdain for political correctness with simple racism. "Abaco blacks are great rural, honest, friendly people. I never locked anything for 40 years going there." This is a racist statement. It implies that blacks in general are thieves, but, the "Abaco blacks" are a refreshing exception among their race.

Let me illustrate this sentiment in another way: would you go up to an "Abaco black" and say, "You Abaco blacks are really great people, I don't even have to lock my doors!"

You said yourself "Intelligent discourse allows contrary opinions and ideas." I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm giving my opinion about these statements. This has nothing to do with the "PC" police: I'm not asking for an apology, nor suggesting any kind of censorship. I'm just making my case. And I defend your right to disagree with me (and I won't even accuse you of being brainwashed, as you did me).
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Old 08-10-2015, 11:33   #30
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Re: The Keys vs Abacos

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Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
You are confusing a disdain for political correctness with simple racism. "Abaco blacks are great rural, honest, friendly people. I never locked anything for 40 years going there." This is a racist statement. It implies that blacks in general are thieves, but, the "Abaco blacks" are a refreshing exception among their race.

Let me illustrate this sentiment in another way: would you go up to an "Abaco black" and say, "You Abaco blacks are really great people, I don't even have to lock my doors!"

You said yourself "Intelligent discourse allows contrary opinions and ideas." I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm giving my opinion about these statements. This has nothing to do with the "PC" police: I'm not asking for an apology, nor suggesting any kind of censorship. I'm just making my case. And I defend your right to disagree with me (and I won't even accuse you of being brainwashed, as you did me).
Cornelius,
Whenever the word "Racism" is invoked in a conversation, as you have done, it almost always refers to "White Racism." It is used by those who intend to derail a legitimate conversation/discussion based upon personal opinions, facts or even heresay when the conversation opposes politically correct ideology imposed by our mass media, government or thought police. It almost always defies logic and reason and is usually charged when the accuser can no longer intellectually defend his/her opinion and hopes that this will, once and for all, end the discussion or shame the recipient of this invective. It is almost always aimed at denigrating White Europeans worldwide(Americans/Australians, NZ's, SA's included),where ironically, we should in some peverse way be ashamed of our great Western Civilization and Cultural Ideas that we have given to the world in the arenas of Science, Art, Literature, Philosophy, Music and Technology. But the greatest peversion of this concept is that it is rarely, if ever, used to describe those who openly promote Racism against us while chanting Black Power, Chicano Power, Indian Power as they call for the end to European Civilization, as we know it, worldwide. This, of course, is the illogical double standard where all people are not judged equally and fairly. It really smacks of what some contemporary philosophers refer to as White Genocide. . . . where Racism against Europeans worldwide, in its purest form, is acceptable because it is politically correct and fashionable among the world's "intellectual elites"--read Socialists, and will ultimately serve to overthrow the status quo and create a New World Order with them holdings the reigns. So, Cornelius, if you have decided to be the town crier of Racism in the Bahamas and worldwide whereby you have elected yourself as the judge, jury and executioner, you must realize that by doing so you are stifling free speech and the free flow of ideas that characterize our great Western Civilization. And, in regards to apologies, if one is due it should be by you to Tim, who with no obvious mal-intent, but only a desire to express a valid, honest personal opinion about his experiences in the Abacos, was called a Racist. Sounds like a double standard to me . . . but then I'm not using the race card.
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