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Old 27-12-2016, 09:33   #1
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St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Hi there,

I chartered a sailing boat (monohull for 8 persons for 14 days) in St. Maarten with Kiriacoulis. unfortunately a lot of things went wrong as this is my first experience with a failed charter I’m looking for some ideas how to proceed...

what happened during our charter was the following...
we arrived on a Saturday (morning) where we found our boat without sails, without anchor and without steering wheel. that’s what we could see from outside. We were promised to get on board at around 17:00... that didn’t work out at all - we had to stay on another boat of Kiriacoulis.

On Sunday we were able to leave at around 13:00. We had still been inside the Simpsonbay Bridge - we noticed that the batteries were not charging. We anchored as we also were not allowed to leave as ~ 800€ dept were on the boat.

Monday: The debt was paid by Kiriacoulis - but we had to return to the marina. The charge controller was broken down - they fixed it untill the afternoon.

Tuesday: We made it outside into Simpsonbay - we tried again to clear out but it seems some documents (evidence that Kiriacoulis (Greece) is owner of the boat as they took it over form Kiriacoulis (France)). It was sorted out and we could leave St. Maarten on in the afternoon.

Wednesday: We stopped in ile fouche and enjoyed the time there as we had the first real experience of our holidays... we decided to start not to early the next day

Thursday: I tried to start the engine but the panel (engine hours) was completely flat. I was really concerned that we run out of electricity... a very nice neighbor boat borrowed us a voltmeter - the batteries were ok ~ 12.8V. I called the guys of Kiriacoulis the tried to explain me how to short-circuit the engine. We didn’t get the engine running. Finally they came and tried to short-circuit the engine - with success. We were quite happy that we could get our fridge running again but it was way to late for leaving around 20:00

Friday: I started the engine (check also the cooling water even I was told "don’t worry about the engine - it’s like a new one"). We started sailing between St. Baths and St. Kitts when I went into the saloon I get the smell of burning plastic. I was quite nervous (as we had already a little cable fire of one of the fans in a cabin) so I checked the stern cabins. Next I opened the engine room - a lot of steam and smoke came out. We immediately stopped the engine and let it cool down. After a while we tried the following as it was the recommendation of Kiriacoulis. We closed the seawater valve for the cooling water, opened a water filter, filled it up with water, started the engine and opened the valve. Without success - after another call we were told to exchange the impeller. We tried it with our super cheap toolbox - without success as we don’t want to completely ruin the pan-head screws... We sailed to Gustavia and took a mooring and went for a mechanic.

Thursday (the week after):
We got the permit for the keys of Anguilla - we went out to prickly pear and tried to anchor. There I recognized that we have an issue with our gearbox / throttle - we "lost" the neutral and the rear gear of the boat.
So we anchored there and tried to find the reason - without success.
We went back to Anguilla for the night, there I realized that one of the engine batteries was boiling and super-hot.

When we returned the boat I made a list of all the things which happened an let that list sign by one of the Kiriacoulis employees.

I´m chartering boats now for around 8 year - only to spend some nice holidays with my friends. I never had a boat in such conditions with so many issues. I tried via Email to request some kind of compensation from the payment of the boat and the lost days our holidays from Kiriakulis - without success so far.

So my questions what would you do now? I´d be thankful for any recommendation.

Thank you so much in advance,
Sinsclear
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Old 27-12-2016, 09:51   #2
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Cry. That's about all you can do. Did you check them out before the charter?
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Old 27-12-2016, 10:11   #3
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

The inherent problem with going to a foreign spot is that you are pretty much dependent on the honesty of the locals. If they decide to look at you as a cash cow rather than a customer/partner in their operation you are stuck. You can't take them to small claims court (if there is such a thing) so you need to hire a local lawyer and assuming (big assumption) that the courts treat you fairly, you still do not recover anything after costs are paid.
About the only thing you can do is to try and convince the charter operator that you will be too much trouble down the road by telling your experience far and wide. They might give you a couple of free weeks but do you really want to subject yourself to this kind of treatment again when the charter operator is this difficult to deal with?
I would give the charter operator a chance to make things good (somehow) and if that doesn't go smoothly with a gut feeling that the operator really wants to make it up to you, then I would spend my time spreading my tale far and wide to whoever wants to listen! You can then feel good about doing a service to all potential charterers that come after you.
Caution, you might not be welcome in any area that falls under the local justice system as the charter operator could decide to file charges against you for slander (or whatever)
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Old 27-12-2016, 10:22   #4
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Did you put the charter cost on your credit card? If so, dispute the charge.
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:09   #5
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

You don't say where are you from. If you're in US or some other large jurisdiction try to find any legal connection between that charter company and your state/country. Can be an agent, a 1 room office somewhere or even a PO Box address i.e. some proof that the company is doing business in your own country. That normally should be enough to establish jurisdiction/venue for the purposes of your home country's courts jurisdiction (typically called Long Arm Statute). If you're in US perhaps even a tiny ad by the charter company in the US based magazine such as Sail or Cruising World may suffice. If you find such connection the rest is relatively straightforward and can be handled by your local attorney specializing in consumer law/unfair business practices and such. And in many US jurisdictions if you can prove that the charter company was deliberate in their not fixing the issues (or knew of them before hand and still chartered that vessel to you) you can get up to treble damages plus your attorney and legal costs.
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Old 27-12-2016, 11:12   #6
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

You get what you pay for.

Sue the company. Next time avoid Greeks. They are charming chatters but lack at delivery and management.

Sue them and post negative feedback on all opinion polls / social media, etc.

b.
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Old 27-12-2016, 12:42   #7
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Wow, thank you all for you quick and numerous answers!

I checked Kiriacoulis a little its the biggest charter company in the Mediterranean and No. 3 in the world (according to there Website). I also reviewed some articles that the boat "Sai-Sai" was running very well in one of the local regattas.

Im from Germany - as far as I know they dont have any Office here.

Again thanks a lot for your Posts!
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Old 27-12-2016, 12:52   #8
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
You get what you pay for.

Sue the company. Next time avoid Greeks. They are charming chatters but lack at delivery and management.

Sue them and post negative feedback on all opinion polls / social media, etc.

b.
I don't get the "You get what you pay for" comment. He didn't say he chartered with Kiriacoulis because they were the cheapest company available. Also, I've had different experiences with the Greeks. I'd rate them much higher than average for boat repairs and being honest. They just are not in any hurry - that is true Greeks, which most likely had nothing to do with this charter. In this case, it's a Greek company being run by local Carib's.

For the OP - if you paid any amount by credit card, dispute it. If not - just let it go. It's not worth spending huge amounts of energy on as it's over and you are all safe and not injured. I kept Palarran next to the Sunsail base on St. Marten for two years and it's pretty typical for them to repair stuff to be lowest level acceptable.
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Old 27-12-2016, 13:17   #9
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Being in a charter Business, I can tell you what do to do..and not to do


-first of all, as Barnakiel said, spend more time, do more research before selecting the company to charter from. The most expensive may not necessarily be the best one but definately avoid the cheapest and the one next to it. If a company is offering 30-40% discounts, they cannot be serious..
-Check if you can reach the base 7/24 and have on the other side of the line someone who can solve yr problem.
-read carefully the charter agreement that you sign. In our case, if the boat is not ready to sail by latest 5 PM on Saturday or if there is any breakdown that cannot be fixed latest by 24 hours during the charter week, we either offer another boat of same or bigger size or refund the full charter payment.
-take the check in process seriously and make sure that the boat is up to the standards that she's supposed to be :safety gears, sails, windlass, engine, lines, etc. If you see any issue or have a doubt ask them to fix the problem before you leave the base.

Cheers

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Old 27-12-2016, 17:52   #10
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

If you paid by American Express you get all your money back.
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Old 27-12-2016, 18:23   #11
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinsclear View Post
Wow, thank you all for you quick and numerous answers!

I checked Kiriacoulis a little its the biggest charter company in the Mediterranean and No. 3 in the world (according to there Website). I also reviewed some articles that the boat "Sai-Sai" was running very well in one of the local regattas.

Im from Germany - as far as I know they dont have any Office here.

Again thanks a lot for your Posts!
Since both Germany and Greece are in EU wouldn't there be any judicial connection? Did you talk to a lawyer in Germany? Perhaps there is some arbitration venue open to you within EU structure?

PS It would seem very weird/counterintuitive if one EU country citizen cannot have recourse against malfeasance by another EU country citizen/entity for misdeeds done within a EU country territory (St. Martin/St. Marten). What then is the whole point of EU?
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Old 27-12-2016, 18:36   #12
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Didn't the bells ring by the name ? Kiriacoulis (or so) ? Sounds greek? Is greek.
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Old 27-12-2016, 18:38   #13
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Would you sue someone in Ga., who lives in Fl.?
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Old 27-12-2016, 18:38   #14
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

Contact Stromp Law, if he has no conflict he should be able to assist you. St. Maarten has a strong Dutch legal system and you will get a fair hearing. My guess is the charter company will not want to go to court.
http://stomplaw.com/
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Old 27-12-2016, 18:42   #15
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Re: St. Maarten Yachtcharter went wrong - recommendation?

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Would you sue someone in Ga., who lives in Fl.?
If the circumstances/law warrant it why not? The courts are full of out of state plaintiffs/defendants. And there are law firms/practitioners specializing on such suits.
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