St Lucia murder

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by minaret

Try a little research on pepper spray, it's really not far from that generally speaking. One of the main quality differences is the type of propellant used and hence the range available.

Better products like Inferno use other tricks as well as high quality propellant. That stuff has extremely finely ground black pepper in it, which creates an involuntary sneeze response when inhaled. Sneezing causes you to involuntarily inhale a whole lot more than you would otherwise. This causes the mucus membranes in your lungs to burn like fire, and it also causes your sinuses to go into extreme snot production mode. Eyes tear up, you can't see or breathe, and the pain is extremely intense.


You could make your own recipe easily, but by the time you make it and figure out how to spray it well, it will cost much more than the commercial option and be much less effective. I would not want to rely on a handful of chili powder as an alternative, for many many reasons. You are far more likely to anger someone with that than incapacitate them. And you have much less control over where it ends up. High quality newr sprays like Inferno are an oily gel with a bright die in it. The gel quickly turns into a liquid after being sprayed, to provide better penetration. This ensures it will only effect the target, even when used in a small enclosed space. You would have a very difficult time replicating these effects at home. I suppose a squirt bottle of home brew might be better than nothing in a locale where the real thing isn't an option, but I'm not sure about that one...

Guess you've never had a juicy chilli squirt in your eye as you seeded it.. and chilli powder will have you sneezing and your eyes in agony...
Used to be how adulteress and homosexuals were executed in ancient times... a package of crushed fresh chillis wrapped in cheesecloth and inserted in the appropriate orifice then their legs were strapped together and hands bound behind..
An agonising lingering death..

[minaret]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Guess you've never had a juicy chilli squirt in your eye as you seeded it.. and chilli powder will have you sneezing and your eyes in agony...
Used to be how adulteress and homosexuals were executed in ancient times... a package of crushed fresh chillis wrapped in cheesecloth and inserted in the appropriate orifice then their legs were strapped together and hands bound behind..
A long agonising lingering death..

Sure I have, just never tried to squirt a juicy chili in someone else's eye while they are attacking me!


They also liked to stuff people with chilis and slow roast them over a spit in Malaysia, as well as the traditional stuff them in a sack full of chilis and beat them with sticks! Doesn't make it a more effective method of self defense...

[David_Old_Jersey]

If you are close enough to squirt someone with a spray - you are close enough to hit them with a machete......

if someone is willing to tackle a man with a machete and they don't have a gun, they need hitting with a machete - many times.

[minaret]

INFERNO
There are many unfortunate people who have endured the terror of a violent assault. The luckier ones that survived these crimes are often changed forever. There remains, long after the incident has passed, a paralyzing loss of confidence, a circumspect mistrust of strangers, and a thorough foreboding about the world in general. In short, they got away with their lives, but are now fearful of everything. It's as if they get victimized twice!
Those who have never suffered a life-threatening assault dread the possibility of it happening to ourselves or our loved ones. The mind numbing idea of being unable or insufficiently prepared to defend one's self is too alarming to consider.
It's unfortunate as well that we cannot always count on assistance from an already overburdened police force. Law enforcement agencies aren't equipped to respond to every call, no matter how desperate, and often by the time they are called it's too late for them to do much more than assess the scene and call an ambulance.
There were over 1,408,337 violent crimes committed in 2007, and with the general loss of economic prosperity we've had in 2008, that number is surely going to continue to rise. The statistics from the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Program paint a grim picture of the world we live in today:
One murder occurs every 31 minutes (that's 46 a day!)
One forcible rape happens every 5.8 minutes (that's 248 a day!)
One robbery transpires every 1.2 minutes (that's 1200 a day!)
And one aggravated assault takes place every 36.8 seconds (that's 2345 a day!)
The only answer to this threat of physical violence is a thoughtful plan of self-defense. Since many men and the vast majority of women lack the physical strength and martial skill necessary to repel a violent attack it's important this plan includes some sort of weapon that could be used as an equalizer.
A firearm is the ultimate equalizer, and it's the one that comes first to most people's minds. And it truly is. That is if you're well trained in its proper use, and know fully its limitations as well as its advantages. A person untrained in the use of firearms may think they can just pull their handgun out of their pocket or purse and start blasting away. It's a dangerous kind of confidence. You could get hurt, and you might hurt or kill somebody other than your attacker. So what's the answer? A non-lethal weapon like Inferno that's instantly available, easy to use and totally effective.
WHAT IS INFERNO?
Inferno is a new pepper canister weapon from Cold Steel that will turn the biggest, meanest, most violent criminal into helpless molten wax at your feet. Unlike other pepper sprays you may have heard about, Inferno deploys a highly targetable foam that contains 8% Oleoresin Capsicum and 2% black pepper. It dissolves into a liquid on contact (this liquefaction effect is tactically important, since other sprays remain "foamy" -like a pie in the face-and make it possible for your assailant to wipe the foam from his face and chuck it at you). One good shot in the face with Inferno will dilate the capillaries of the eyes causing temporary blindness. It will induce choking, coughing and nausea and most importantly trigger an immediate and massive sneeze reflex (due to the atomized black pepper particles) that will drag the super hot Habanero chili extract deep into the mucous membranes of the sinus cavities of the nose, throat and lungs causing them to swell up and prevent all but desperate life support breathing. In short Inferno will melt any attacker(s) into the ground and leave them totally incapacitated for a considerable period of time giving you ample opportunity to escape and summon the police.
ADVANTAGES OF INFERNO
Highly Targetable - because it's a foam and not a spray or fog, it's easy to hit your target accurately indoors or outdoors with Inferno. It won't contaminate an entire room. This makes it ideal for use in confined spaces like homes, shops, offices and parking garages.
Not Overly Sticky - Many pepper gels on the market are advertised to stick like glue and that is a pretty good description as they adhere so firmly, that it's difficult to clean away the crusty, over sprayed contamination that ends up on furniture, automobiles or on your clothing. In contrast Inferno, while being extremely effective can be easily cleaned off with ordinary soap and water.
Safe - Inferno's unique formulation will not blister the skin or burn the corneas of the eyes.
High Quality - Unlike other brands, Inferno uses the absolute best HFC134A aerosol propellant, which is the same propellant, used in bronchial inhalers. The force of this propellant never diminishes no matter how much you have already sprayed out of the canister. In contrast, competing brands use Hydrocarbon, which is flammable, less consistent and less powerful. Some use nitrogen, which leaks out of the canister over time and supplies an inconsistent pressure.
Non Flammable and Awesomely Effective - Inferno, as mixed, is non-flammable and while the HFC134A propellant is one of the more expensive alternatives, we use it because it breaks up and atomizes the particles of chili pepper and black pepper 2,000 times finer than other propellants on the market, making Inferno more effective as a stopping agent, because more material is inhaled/absorbed by your attacker. This makes Inferno very effective on people who are intoxicated on drugs or so enraged that they do not feel pain during their violent rampages.
*STATE LAWS PROHIBIT THE SHIPMENT OF PEPPER SPRAYS TO THE FOLLOWING STATES: WI, NY,MA, & MI








Just seemed so relevant to the conversation that I had to post it.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-n_jRjC...%3D-n_jRjCTjeY

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Well its legal. So it can be wherever.

I thought a lot of places it is like a gun.

Don't have a list.

Have never seen a list by country of what you can and can't have. It would be handy.

[minaret]

The pen model is pretty innocuous.



Amazon.com: Cold Steel Inferno 7 gm Pen Unit Pepper Spray: Sports & Outdoors



At less than $5 you can get several and not miss them if they are confiscated.

[a64pilot]

So you hit em with pepper spray, then what? Need to think about the then what too.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So you hit em with pepper spray, then what? Need to think about the then what too.

Oh, yes, that you do! If you throw them in the water in that state, they will probably drown and you will be charged with murder like that poor French guy in the Carribean. I'd disarm them and tie them up good with zip ties before calling the authorities, if possible.
Or just allow them to retreat to the boat they arrived on and leave. They will probably want to do just that if you give them a face full of Inferno from behind your locked steel companionway grate. Especially if you follow up with some threatening jabs with your "knife on a stick"!
The authorities should still be able to find them, if they care to. The dye in Inferno is designed to mark perps and soaks into skin, making it hard to get rid of.
My next move would obviously be to up anchor and leave immediately. Before they come back angry and better armed.


Amazon.com: Safariland Restraints Double Cuff Disposable Handcuffs, Black (Pack of 10): Sports & Outdoors

[a64pilot]

I was thinking if they aren't in the cabin, toss them in the water, in the cabin, well I intend to not let that happen. I would also assume it's rare to be dealing with just one, usually there is more than one?
Again keep them out of the cabin, and run them off the boat seems to be the best.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I was thinking if they aren't in the cabin, toss them in the water, in the cabin, well I intend to not let that happen. I would also assume it's rare to be dealing with just one, usually there is more than one?
Again keep them out of the cabin, and run them off the boat seems to be the best.

Once five guys tried to mug me and some friends as we got into our car late at night after a show in The Tenderloin. As I unlocked the drivers side door ( I had unlocked passenger side first and my friends were already piling in), one of the muggers (they were all Hispanic gang members and shouting "give us the money!" The whole time) put a gun to the back of my head. As he did so, I could see the orange plastic cap on the end of the barrel over my shoulder. It was a cap gun, a common method for muggers not to get charged for using a gun in the commission of their crime. I hosed down all of them with my key ring canister of pepper spray/CS gas mix, which I already had unsafetied in my hand. They were all on the ground within two seconds, screaming! As I peeled away from the curb, one got up clutching his face and kicked my driver side door, making a big dent, while screaming obscenities in Spanish! Man, was he pissed off! But I've never forgotten how effective it was, got us all out of a bad situation in a heartbeat. It was like a bomb went off on that street corner, instant results! Totally worth the dent in my door, which was a conversation starter for some years after.


My point is, I wouldn't worry too much about multiple assailants if you have the good stuff. It is an excellent equalizer. For me, it's if you think they have a gun-comply. If not, hose 'em down! And you better hope you get it right...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Travis McGee

That's all great advice, Dave, right up to the point where you suggest passive surrender to criminal invaders, because they probably won't hurt you. That's were we split wakes.

Where in that post you referenced did I suggest that

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Notice that Dave says a lot of what not to do: dont secure you boat, dont defend yourself, dont have pepper spray, etc etc.

But he never has a positive remark on what is a good idea to do. Apart from leave a few days after you work out a place is dodgy.

You havent been cruising for a long time, nor in areas like this, nor where your friends are getting chooped up and people you know of are getting killed.

I have laid out several defensive tactics like lights and sirens. If you don't feel that's enough then carry a mossberg.

Given our respective ages I'd suggest I've been sailing and cruising far longer then you. And no like most people I've not seen my friends chopped up or killed. If I was truly frightened then I'd carry a firearm. It's frightened people that lock themselves in a boat in terror. Why oh why given you have complete freedom to go where you like , would anyone sail where they have to barricade themselves into a boat , friggin nuts if you ask me.

Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by minaret

Oh, yes, that you do! If you throw them in the water in that state, they will probably drown and you will be charged with murder like that poor French guy in the Carribean. I'd disarm them and tie them up good with zip ties before calling the authorities, if possible

Everything has plusses and minuses - not being a local increases vulnerability from lack of local knowledge, but also means as passing through easier to get away with.......stuff .

In places where the rule of law is theoretical only - then "you" are the rule of law.....and can dispense with an eye for an eye as liberal wishy washy nonsense.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I'd wish people would stop insulting other countries than their own great EU or AUS and stop insulting people with comments like "them living in ghetto's" etc. Really, it's not even allowed. I understand that this is the tactic to get threads that "they" don't like closed (do a personal attack to get it closed). You should ignore or at least not post instead of insulting others.

I am not from the US; I was born and raised in Holland. Yes, it used to be pretty safe but home invasions with torture, murder and rape are the order of the day now, with dead people found in their homes daily. Choosing to ignore it is not wise.

You need to ease up a bit, I made the " living in a ghetto " comment totally tongue in check.

When did burglaries become " home invasions " by be way. And perhaps you could demonstrate that such things are the " order of the day" with some facts.

Dave

[minaret]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I have laid out several defensive tactics like lights and sirens. If you don't feel that's enough then carry a mossberg.

Given our respective ages I'd suggest I've been sailing and cruising far longer then you. And no like most people I've not seen my friends chopped up or killed. If I was truly frightened then I'd carry a firearm. It's frightened people that lock themselves in a boat in terror. Why oh why given you have complete freedom to go where you like , would anyone sail where they have to barricade themselves into a boat , friggin nuts if you ask me.

Dave

If you lock the door to your house at night and have a few motion lights and maybe an old shotgun in the back of the closet, have you "barricaded yourself in"? Everyone I know lives like this, it's part of life. No reason it has to get in the way of having fun, or even take up more than a moment or two of your time and thought every day. I spend way more time arguing basic security with folks like you than I do actually maintaining that security. If we all just did it without talking about or pretending that the world is some kind of idyllic place that it is not, we'd all be better off. Not sure why you are so averse to making even the teensiest effort in the name of security, but to each their own. Clearly it's not that important to you, but some of us have children and families aboard. Why does locking the door have to mean you are "in terror"? That's just a childish attempt to be insulting and demeaning to those who care more about this than you do.