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Old 27-01-2014, 06:07   #421
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Yo Dave,

Ken here from dah "ghetto" as you call my crib man. Don't need yo feelin' sorry foe meh man. I gots my baby moma tuh watch my back. When dat crackhead done broke thu dah front doe last yeah wit dah mongo screw driva, she done chased dat suka down for duh poolice and got dat bastad locked up foeteen months... Annow he dead.

Mi baby moma es Rambo... He aint no ficsional critter.

Ken from da hood. Weez aslo a baot owners like yawl.

P.S.: Man.. I think yah dun spelled yo name rong.
Im still laughing, very good, I appreciate a good comeback

My boss many years ago, couldn't explain why my expensive company car was never nicked and joyridden, when there was a spate of them at the time, I explained that living in a ghetto, we never took from our own!!!!. I think he half believed me.

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Old 27-01-2014, 06:34   #422
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Re: St Lucia murder

I am of two minds, firstly in the main its very difficult to make the companion way secure in most boats that anyone with a pry bar couldn't overcome. Secondly open grill barricades simply allow you to be threatened at leisure with a gun, since theres really nowhere to hide thats secure on a boat.

I think we all understand that if someone boards your boat with a gun there is little you can do, there is no indication a gun was used in the attack on the Pratts in St Lucia, many attacks have been severe beatings or stabbings!

The idea of the open grill is to at least give yourself time to switch on an alarm, turn on some some deck lights, most thieves would prefer a soft target....surely if your boat is in the dark, all hatches wide open, it makes you more inviting?

Secondly barricading ones self in, is contrary to humans nature!

Really, most do it every night on land in thier homes?
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Old 27-01-2014, 06:38   #423
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Re: St Lucia murder

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I am of two minds, firstly in the main its very difficult to make the companion way secure in most boats that anyone with a pry bar couldn't overcome. Secondly open grill barricades simply allow you to be threatened at leisure with a gun, since theres really nowhere to hide thats secure on a boat.

I think we all understand that if someone boards your boat with a gun there is little you can do, there is no indication a gun was used in the attack on the Pratts in St Lucia, many attacks have been severe beatings or stabbings!

The idea of the open grill is to at least give yourself time to switch on an alarm, turn on some some deck lights, most thieves would prefer a soft target....surely if your boat is in the dark, all hatches wide open, it makes you more inviting?

Secondly barricading ones self in, is contrary to humans nature!

Really, most do it every night on land in thier homes?
But in my home I have several separate ways to escape. Id be far more concerned about dying in a fire i couldn't escape then someone trespassing. On a boat theres often on other easy way out. ( since a hatch brings you up within a few feet of the assailants).

In my view if they are aboard and intend menace, the games already over. turning on lights etc might help but I suspect for determined aggressors, its a meaningless gesture. Other cruisers rant going to come to your rescue either. Cops probably just ignore you , they do for everything else.

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Old 27-01-2014, 07:08   #424
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
But in my home I have several separate ways to escape. Id be far more concerned about dying in a fire i couldn't escape then someone trespassing. On a boat theres often on other easy way out. ( since a hatch brings you up within a few feet of the assailants).

In my view if they are aboard and intend menace, the games already over. turning on lights etc might help but I suspect for determined aggressors, its a meaningless gesture. Other cruisers rant going to come to your rescue either. Cops probably just ignore you , they do for everything else.

dave
Blimey, waste of time this, you are my grandad who has come back to haunt me! Tell u what mate, you keep all the hatches open, good luck to you!
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Old 27-01-2014, 07:13   #425
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
In my view if they are aboard and intend menace, the games already over. Other cruisers rant going to come to your rescue either. Cops probably just ignore you , they do for everything else.

dave
Yo Dave,

yew rite bout dah dang fuzz an udda crewsas... deh not gunna help yawl... butt yawl ant met mah baby moma Rambo! Dah gaem not ovah! Shee badh ass!!

Ken
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Old 27-01-2014, 07:14   #426
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Blimey, waste of time this, you are my grandad who has come back to haunt me! Tell u what mate, you keep all the hatches open, good luck to you!
I have and do, thanks for the good luck

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Old 27-01-2014, 07:23   #427
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Re: St Lucia murder

FWIW: According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 33.9% of the total burglaries committed in the United States in 2012 were no-force entries.
This means that in more than 713,000 burglaries that year (of a total 2,103,787), the thieves simply opened an unlocked door or window and went right in.

FBI — Burglary
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Old 27-01-2014, 07:29   #428
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Re: St Lucia murder

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FWIW: According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 33.9% of the total burglaries committed in the United States in 2012 were no-force entries.
This means that in more than 713,000 burglaries that year (of a total 2,103,787), the thieves simply opened an unlocked door or window and went right in.

FBI — Burglary

Gordon, its a waste of time with this bloke, he is the sort of guy who would rubbish wearing a seat belt and tell you he has driven 50 years and never had a a problem......then bang, as you fly through his windscreen shake his head in disbelief and say, blimey, thats never happened before???
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Old 27-01-2014, 07:31   #429
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Re: St Lucia murder

Too funny!
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Old 27-01-2014, 08:09   #430
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Re: St Lucia murder

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It's a bit sad we're using movies to justify anything !! You might look up the statistics of number of hostages killed by said pirates, quite low in fact

I find it hard to accept all this anecdotal " horror" stuff. Why do people talk up violence.

Dave
I was using the movie to illustrate the (possible) mindset of those doing the crimes: a sort of jealous righteousness borne out from having a constant stream of wealthy visitors to one's impovershed country.

We have made it part of our "security preparedness" plan to keep the boat fairly industrial-looking (not hard with a steel pilothouse cutter with pipe rails). There's a certain protective colouration in not waving one's (relative) wealth in the faces of the locals, some of whom may feel it's time to pluck the chickens for themselves, particularly if the income from tourism is unevenly distributed.

It's not fair, and it's no excuse for violent robbery, but it does go to explain some of the motivations.

I reviewed a book several years ago called "Dangerous Waters" that provided some insight to the specifically Somalian case. Local fisherman found their government (such as it was) powerless to stop foreign overfishing and dumping in their waters, ruining their livelihood. So they took to piracy. Then they started to like piracy, and then organized crime, Al Qaeda and local warlords got into it. Now, it's a way of life. Same thing for the Strait of Malacca: ship raiding is a business for the locals squeezed out of traditional lifestyles.

Understanding these sort of backstories (which I am recounting not in order to gain sympathy for these bastards but to provide context) can help, I think, in driving decisions where one should anchor, and with what level of vigilance.
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Old 28-01-2014, 02:58   #431
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Re: St Lucia murder

Wow! Many of these posts are so long winded, and maybe mindless ramblings and rants...

I think MarkJ, SV Jedi and a few others have looked at the dangers, considered them, made plans, and traveled on, enjoying their travels...

I appreciate those comments and the advice from those who are cruising in other countries right now, and are sharing their observations...

As for me, I will consider the places to avoid, and the places to spend much more time, while not only planning for weather and normal seamanship issues, but issues involving safety in other countries.

"The prudent person sees trouble ahead and hides, but the naive continue on and suffer the consequences."
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Old 28-01-2014, 08:54   #432
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Re: St Lucia murder

Obviously, one take-away from threads like this is that there some places where there's an elevated risk of crime, and the best strategy is to simply avoid those. Clearly we could use a good source for accurate stats on crime against boats/boaters, weighed as a percentage of total boats visiting the area, to properly gauge risk.

A comment on security in general:

There's two main aspects to perimeter security anywhere. Related to boats:

1) Your boat should be difficult to enter and rob. Secured hatches and ports, locks on outboards, alarms, etc etc

2) Your boat should look difficult to enter and rob. Neat, loose stuff stowed, visibly substantial companionway hatch. Little blinky red LEDs besides prominent alarm warning stickers. Pressure-sensitive cockpit mat. Real (or fake) video cameras. Motion-activated downlights (with a little beep when they activate). Big dog recording. (I'm running out here. More ideas, please)

As statistics prove, the majority of thieves simply want an easy grab, and they will avoid anything that looks like a hassle. if you can deter the deterrable, you've greatly reduced the chance of having to personally deal with an onboard intruder, which can go sideways in an instant.

Of course there are the persistent and the stupid and the psycho criminals out there who won't be deterred by obvious cues... but they are a small subset of the thief population.
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Old 28-01-2014, 09:59   #433
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Obviously, one take-away from threads like this is that there some places where there's an elevated risk of crime, and the best strategy is to simply avoid those. Clearly we could use a good source for accurate stats on crime against boats/boaters, weighed as a percentage of total boats visiting the area, to properly gauge risk.

A comment on security in general:

There's two main aspects to perimeter security anywhere. Related to boats:

1) Your boat should be difficult to enter and rob. Secured hatches and ports, locks on outboards, alarms, etc etc

2) Your boat should look difficult to enter and rob. Neat, loose stuff stowed, visibly substantial companionway hatch. Little blinky red LEDs besides prominent alarm warning stickers. Pressure-sensitive cockpit mat. Real (or fake) video cameras. Motion-activated downlights (with a little beep when they activate). Big dog recording. (I'm running out here. More ideas, please)

As statistics prove, the majority of thieves simply want an easy grab, and they will avoid anything that looks like a hassle. if you can deter the deterrable, you've greatly reduced the chance of having to personally deal with an onboard intruder, which can go sideways in an instant.

Of course there are the persistent and the stupid and the psycho criminals out there who won't be deterred by obvious cues... but they are a small subset of the thief population.
A sensible post. The looped dog noises (make sure the loop is long enough), maybe faked radio traffic, lights on a timer, and the rest. It may seem a little ruthless to make one's boat appear a tougher target in the hopes that thieves will move on to an easier one, but such is the nature of security.

I have used the little red LEDs on batteries (make sure only the LED is visible) on my boats in winter storage for years. Sometimes a 9v battery will last most of the winter. As seen through a smoked Lexan hatch, it could be a security alarm as far as someone "casing the joint" could determine.

Of course, what I really have in that regard shall go unmentioned here.
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Old 28-01-2014, 10:23   #434
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Re: St Lucia murder

There is a lot of really useful info on this thread & im sure its given many food for thought! The ¨thread drift¨ has been caused by someone (probably a single old guy) who feels unloved by the world, probably sails alone as no one could put up with him more than 20mins, and If you told him a board was black he would argue it was a ¨White board painted black¨ , special thanks to Mark for the photo of his simple security grid, I showed it to my local welder who says its easy to make something to fit & be mighty strong, a photo of it locked fom the inside would be useful Mark if possible?! As a relative newbie would it be a big safety risk to have 2 bars across certain Hatches to stop entry through an open one? I am close to a boat purchase & would like to get all these type of jobs done before we set off! Im now at a stage where ive gone past the argument of ¨to lock or not to lock in¨, i respect the right to an opinion & if people want to go everywhere with the boat wide open then thats thier choice, I wish to have that bit of extra security available to me & others on board if I feel w need it in certain areas!
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Old 28-01-2014, 10:35   #435
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pirate Re: St Lucia murder

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There is a lot of really useful info on this thread & im sure its given many food for thought! The ¨thread drift¨ has been caused by someone (probably a single old guy) who feels unloved by the world, probably sails alone as no one could put up with him more than 20mins, !
No need to get personal... unless you've done 20 minutes with me..
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