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Old 26-01-2014, 20:24   #406
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St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Inferno turns to liquid on contact for a reason. There have been many incidents of someone sprayed with foam or gel scraping it off their face and throwing it back at the victim. A gel which turns to liquid on contact prevents this.



Next time try discharging under water.
A serious question, given that pepper spray is often banned , yet a shotgun rarely is. Why all this talk of pepper spray. If you want an aggressive defence, it's hard to beat a mossberg, I carried one for one sail. Didn't do it again, but I can't see the advantage of a product that's actually illegal nott just controlled in many jurisdictions

Dave
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Old 26-01-2014, 20:35   #407
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Re: St Lucia murder

In the caribbean no one give a sh!t if you have a pepper spray can onboard or not, not even customs...... i dont see the point, a spear gun is far more lethal compared..
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Old 26-01-2014, 20:41   #408
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Re: St Lucia murder

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In the caribbean no one give a sh!t if you have a pepper spray can onboard or not, not even customs...... i dont see the point, a spear gun is far more lethal compared..



Perhaps lethality should not be the first response? If they aren't armed with a gun, deterring an attack with pepper spray may make an assailant leave or disable them enough to be disarmed and detained for police. This way you aren't arrested for murder. Unless it's absolutely necessary.
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Old 26-01-2014, 20:46   #409
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Next minute well be using Johnny dep as a role model !

I mean of you take sensible precautions and yes adopt more defensive strategies like siren, lights and or locking yourself in , that's your cup of tea. Beyond that is quite frankly , better left to the movies.

If you really live or exist in that type of environment , and I suspect very very few here actually do, then I feel sorry for you.

I know several people living in tough tough areas , bedevilled with drug related crime, it bears no comparison with the comfy lives most boat owners have or anything you'd see in the movies.

Rambo is a fictional character

Davec
Yo Dave,

Ken here from dah "ghetto" as you call my crib man. Don't need yo feelin' sorry foe meh man. I gots my baby moma tuh watch my back. When dat crackhead done broke thu dah front doe last yeah wit dah mongo screw driva, she done chased dat suka down for duh poolice and got dat bastad locked up foeteen months... Annow he dead.

Mi baby moma es Rambo... He aint no ficsional critter.

Ken from da hood. Weez aslo a baot owners like yawl.

P.S.: Man.. I think yah dun spelled yo name rong.
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Old 26-01-2014, 20:53   #410
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Re: St Lucia murder

Dave, im sure you are a nice guy BUT, you are getting pelters here mate! You remind me of my catankerous Grand father (god rest his soul) who just wanted to disagree for the sake of it! You have made a complete mountain out of a molehill regarding having a perfecty sensible security gate by suggesting you are ¨barricaded¨ inside your boat! Most on here agree its a great and simple way to provide protection not just for yourself but also wives , Children & guests! My opinion is if someone like you wishes to be stuborn when you sail alone, fine, you keep everything open, thats your shout.......BUT, at least consider providing that bit of extra security for others who may be with you! below is one of your earlier posts on this subject!


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Cruised all the med , Atlantic Europe , US east coast and a fair bit of the carribean. I never lock myself in a boat , never. Most nights I didnt even put the wash boards in

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Old 26-01-2014, 20:56   #411
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Perhaps lethality should not be the first response? If they aren't armed with a gun, deterring an attack with pepper spray may make an assailant leave or disable them enough to be disarmed and detained for police. This way you aren't arrested for murder. Unless it's absolutely necessary.

I mean that a pepper spray can on my boat is not a problem with the law, not even my 2 spears guns , thats why discuss if is legal or ilegal dont make any sense .. who care if is a pepper spray can, my 2 cents for the pepper.....
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Old 26-01-2014, 21:04   #412
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Re: St Lucia murder

Or check this baby , combined with pepper can be a real cockpit hell....
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Old 26-01-2014, 21:06   #413
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Re: St Lucia murder

Lol! Too true, bad stuff does happen and watching your back is smart. I may be biased and a bit jaded due to my wife's occupation as Charge Nurse at King County Jail, where she deals with societal dregs nightly. I constantly watch her back, as career inmates with a grudge have attacked her coworkers outside of work in a number of occasions. This woman was a coworker of hers who quit and went elsewhere in Public Health after tiring of the pace. She was attacked by a former inmate who knew her well and attacked her with a knife on sight immediately after walking in to her public psychiatric care clinic. She was officially dead twice on the gurney and lost both eyes, after having been stabbed in the face and torso over sixty times. I could go on, but I think that case perfectly demonstrates my desire to look out for my family by whatever means necessary. It happens more than most people realize, because you don't see it. But when you work somewhere where you are forced to see it all the time, it's a real eye opener.







$6 million settlement in grisly attack at clinic | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News
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Old 27-01-2014, 04:38   #414
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Re: St Lucia murder

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I find it hard to accept all this anecdotal " horror" stuff. Why do people talk up violence.

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Don't know, why is this thread so long?
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Old 27-01-2014, 04:51   #415
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Re: St Lucia murder

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In the caribbean no one give a sh!t if you have a pepper spray can onboard or not, not even customs...... i dont see the point, a spear gun is far more lethal compared..
Serious question because I'm not sure. How long can the bands on a speargun be kept stretched back with a loaded spear, ready to go? Speargun are pretty slow to cock and load. Some models have one, two or three bands. Can you leave one band stretched, and not ruin it fairly quickly?
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Old 27-01-2014, 04:55   #416
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Re: St Lucia murder

Daves most bizzare responses can be put in context with this photo.



It does happen in the Caribbean. All in an area only 250 miles long. Guns are not the answer. I am not making this stuff up.
I did not make up the above photo.
I didnt make up the killing of the Dutch cruiser in margareta a few months ago either.
And I didnt make up the reason for this thread the murder in St lucia.

To say three grevious attacks in as many months in one area is not cause for cruisers to think about their security I dont know what is. No matter how far people have cruised, or how long ago they were in an area it is prudent to upgrade the thinking and upgrade the ideas.


Now as theres too much vitriol in this thread, I sign off!
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Old 27-01-2014, 05:16   #417
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Re: St Lucia murder

Having read through all this, I am coming to the conclusion that the best thing about the Carribean is the 4000 miles of ocean between me and it!

I think, when the time comes, I will go elsewhere...
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Old 27-01-2014, 05:16   #418
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Re: St Lucia murder

I must confess I am starting to understand why some folks want to get the hell out of where they live! - and are upset that paradise not always the same as in the brochure.....imagine spending $500k to live in a "luxury" condo only to find you get to live amongst all those you are trying to flee.........
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Old 27-01-2014, 06:00   #419
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Daves most bizzare responses can be put in context with this photo.



It does happen in the Caribbean. All in an area only 250 miles long. Guns are not the answer. I am not making this stuff up.
I did not make up the above photo.
I didnt make up the killing of the Dutch cruiser in margareta a few months ago either.
And I didnt make up the reason for this thread the murder in St lucia.

To say three grevious attacks in as many months in one area is not cause for cruisers to think about their security I dont know what is. No matter how far people have cruised, or how long ago they were in an area it is prudent to upgrade the thinking and upgrade the ideas.


Now as theres too much vitriol in this thread, I sign off!

Mark , Im not sure of the propose of these quite intrusive photos.

And yes actually guns are the answers if you really want to know. All this talk of pepper spray etc is really just because of the legal issues carrying firearms. I personally would always carry a good pump action shotgun ( I currently have a semi automatic shotgun and a pump, but I don't like the safety issues surrounding autoloaders) .

Least people think Im some lilly livered "socialist" I happen to now live where I can "stand my ground in my house" and believe you me, I would. ( and I can handle a firearm quite well).

SO.

A rational discussion then , leading aside carrying a firearm, as most jurisdictions make it to awkward, is what is both reasonable and effective.

Firstly most people, especially " nice" middle class people have little or no exposure to any sort of violent crime, I can look around to all my current peer group and say quite comfortably that none of them has experienced personal violence.

Therefore self defence methodologies that stress aggressive particularly first strike responses are never going to be effective. I question the effectiveness of pepper spray on multiple assailants, The primary purpose of such "weapons" is to buy time to escape. Thats not possible on a boat and make only serve to make a bad situation much worse.

As to barricading yourself in, and that is what its called. I am of two minds, firstly in the main its very difficult to make the companion way secure in most boats that anyone with a pry bar couldn't overcome. Secondly open grill barricades simply allow you to be threatened at leisure with a gun, since theres really nowhere to hide thats secure on a boat.

Secondly barricading ones self in, is contrary to humans nature especially in a boat, Usually if you hear a noise afloat, you investigate, thats whats happened to that poor women. She came out the main hatch. This tends to be the instinctive response for most sailors, because most of the time its the right one.


Personally I don't see , short of carrying a useful , readily available, loaded and accessible firearm, what these types of measures are purporting to do, othe then offer some possible false sense of "security" to people, SO much " safety" is just that a false sense of security.

My main belief is the key to survival is vigilance, both personal and electronic assisted. Hence if I'm in a dodgy anchorage, I maintain a 24 hours anchor watch like any good seaman would do. The concept that you just go below and sleep in all cases actually appals me

Secondly if you feel the need, then active monition detection, search lights and illuminating the general area around the boat all night is a further good deterrent, since boarding parties can easily be seen approaching both from the boat and the shore.

What I question, is why you show personal and gruesome pictures of a particularly tragedy. I mean I could put up endless road traffic accident pictures, does that change driving a car!!.

The fact remains and the statistics prove it anyway you look, cruising is a very safe undertaking and thats true even in the Carribean.

All the above is in addition to my previous comments regarding ostentation, personal awareness etc.

Ultimately we have the ability to chooses where we go, I see no reason to visit potential trouble spots, If the cruising community boycotted St. Lucia for 2 years it would send out a clear signal. These island economies do want our business.

Maybe we need to leave the CArribean for a while , a bit like we left the red sea and Gulf of Aden.

Id appreciate no more pictures of this poor women thanks mate

dave
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Old 27-01-2014, 06:06   #420
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Re: St Lucia murder

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It happens more than most people realize, because you don't see it. But when you work somewhere where you are forced to see it all the time, it's a real eye opener
of course, certain find themselves in harms way or see the worst parts of society, I personally was forced out of my car by a bunch of delete as appropriate ( Terrorists/Freedom fighters) at the point of a loaded gun. Standing there late at night amongst 6 of them was no fun at all. Bad bad stuff.

But that is not to say that ever walking to my local shop or sailing in my boat , I will ever come across this the of activity. I know I won't, hence i live my life based on the 90% not the 10% ( or the 5,4,3,1,,0001%).

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