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Old 26-01-2014, 18:43   #391
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
So one might think. But rape and torture are about power, not about sexual allure. We don't know the details about this one, but it's clear from some reports of more brutal attacks that the thieves had issues they wanted to work out on the bodies of the "affluent Westerners" in their home waters that went well beyond nicking a pair of Steiners and a wad of local currency.

Apparently, in the movie "Captain Phillips", the Somali chief hijacker's line "Look at me. I'm the captain now" was improvised. But it has the ring of truth, that some smart, scrawny little bugger with a gun from a miserable, impoverished strip of dirt who finally has the upper hand on a figure from the dominant culture would say such a thing.

I would imagine the very same line has been uttered on a few boarded yachts. Disturbing and horrible as that may be to contemplate.
It's a bit sad we're using movies to justify anything !! You might look up the statistics of number of hostages killed by said pirates, quite low in fact

I find it hard to accept all this anecdotal " horror" stuff. Why do people talk up violence.

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Old 26-01-2014, 18:49   #392
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Old 26-01-2014, 18:52   #393
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Re: St Lucia murder

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You need to ease up a bit, I made the " living in a ghetto " comment totally tongue in check.

When did burglaries become " home invasions " by be way. And perhaps you could demonstrate that such things are the " order of the day" with some facts.

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Keep up with the news. A "home invasion" is a burglary where the perps are only interested in stealing your life and raping your wife, not burgling. More and more common, which is why it now has it's own media term.
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Old 26-01-2014, 18:55   #394
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Re: St Lucia murder

I find it really difficult to read posts here from people effectively engaged in a hobby, touting all sorts of death and destruction as if it was the norm. You'd think cruising was some form of war tourism or something. Then you add people comments derived from Hollywood movies ( and seemingly not even reading the real story ) as if that was real life , or comparing st. Lucia with Somalia , given a tiny number of you went through there during the recent piracy period. There was even a me tin of Blackbeard. !!!

Next minute well be using Johnny dep as a role model !

I mean of you take sensible precautions and yes adopt more defensive strategies like siren, lights and or locking yourself in , that's your cup of tea. Beyond that is quite frankly , better left to the movies.

The last thing I'd like to see is a cruiser fraternity, terrorised by its own fear. Fearful of any boat approaching , distrustful and suspicious of natives. If that wee so , I'd prefer cruising be abandoned.i mean where does this paranoia end , attacks in cars , terror in your home. If you really live or exist in that type of environment , and I suspect very very few here actually do, then I feel sorry for you. My own experience of living in what would be described as " dodgy " parts of Philly , combined me most of the problems were fear based not based on actuality.

I know several people living in tough tough areas , bedevilled with drug related crime, it bears no comparison with the comfy lives most boat owners have or anything you'd see in the movies.

Rambo is a fictional character

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Old 26-01-2014, 18:56   #395
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Keep up with the news. A "home invasion" is a burglary where the perps are only interested in stealing your life and raping your wife, not burgling. More and more common, which is why it now has it's own media term.
Hmmm, ok the term is not used here.

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Old 26-01-2014, 19:07   #396
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I find it really difficult to read posts here from people effectively engaged in a hobby, touting all sorts of death and destruction as if it was the norm. You'd think cruising was some form of war tourism or something. Then you add people comments derived from Hollywood movies ( and seemingly not even reading the real story ) as if that was real life , or comparing st. Lucia with Somalia , given a tiny number of you went through there during the recent piracy period. There was even a me tin of Blackbeard. !!!

Next minute well be using Johnny dep as a role model !

I mean of you take sensible precautions and yes adopt more defensive strategies like siren, lights and or locking yourself in , that's your cup of tea. Beyond that is quite frankly , better left to the movies.

The last thing I'd like to see is a cruiser fraternity, terrorised by its own fear. Fearful of any boat approaching , distrustful and suspicious of natives. If that wee so , I'd prefer cruising be abandoned.i mean where does this paranoia end , attacks in cars , terror in your home. If you really live or exist in that type of environment , and I suspect very very few here actually do, then I feel sorry for you. My own experience of living in what would be described as " dodgy " parts of Philly , combined me most of the problems were fear based not based on actuality.

I know several people living in tough tough areas , bedevilled with drug related crime, it bears no comparison with the comfy lives most boat owners have or anything you'd see in the movies.

Rambo is a fictional character

Davec


Please show me one post where someone "touts death and destruction as if it was the norm". I think Boatie did compare cruising to war tourism, but I believe he was being facetious.
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Old 26-01-2014, 19:09   #397
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Re: St Lucia murder

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If you lock the door to your house at night and have a few motion lights and maybe an old shotgun in the back of the closet, have you "barricaded yourself in"? Everyone I know lives like this, it's part of life. No reason it has to get in the way of having fun, or even take up more than a moment or two of your time and thought every day. I spend way more time arguing basic security with folks like you than I do actually maintaining that security. If we all just did it without talking about or pretending that the world is some kind of idyllic place that it is not, we'd all be better off. Not sure why you are so averse to making even the teensiest effort in the name of security, but to each their own. Clearly it's not that important to you, but some of us have children and families aboard. Why does locking the door have to mean you are "in terror"? That's just a childish attempt to be insulting and demeaning to those who care more about this than you do.
I think you are deliberately trying to be provocative. I was explaining that I personally feel that " fear" is behind much of people's reaction , rather then the reality

I cruised the carribean extensively with my wife and two young daughters, please don't lecture me.

I have no problem if anyone wants to lock themselves in , I never did. What I'm concerned about is that an isolated tragic incident, is used to hype the level of fear, such that people abandon normal cruising lifestyles. The next incident will be an innocent person killed while mistakingly boarding a yacht or say a local customs or gov official.

I dont pretend the world is idyllic, I lock my car , I take extraordinary steps to ensure my firearm collection is extremely securely stored, I lock my house door at night.

It's not the locking of doors that bothers me, it's the promulgation of fear , the use of stories of rape, the mention of " your wife or daughter " , this stuff is simply stirring fear

Look at it this way, where I live in a very rural area , I can walk up the drive of any house without any fear of being mistaking attacked or shot at. ( yet every farmer has a gun round here ) , yet I met an American broken down in his hire car hearby, who was frightened to walk up to a property to ask for help for fear of being shot at. That's what a climate of fear does. Thats a bad way to develop a society.

Nowhere did I say I'm against a bit of security. I've mentioned again and again useful things to do to mitigate your exposure to petty crime. But I absolutely detest the Rambo mentality or fear mongering that these threads descend into

Dave
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Old 26-01-2014, 19:15   #398
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I think you are deliberately trying to be provocative. I was explaining that I personally feel that " fear" is behind much of people's reaction , rather then the reality

I cruised the carribean extensively with my wife and two young daughters, please don't lecture me.
Dave
Wow… this thread has turned into the goboatingnow show….

Dave..Quality not quantity is preferred! we heard you the first time...
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Old 26-01-2014, 19:17   #399
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Please show me one post where someone "touts death and destruction as if it was the norm". I think Boatie did compare cruising to war tourism, but I believe he was being facetious.
There are several posts where people have repeatedly mentioned extreme cases, brought up wife and daughter rape, or where people where severely injured or killed in an attempt paint a " world going down the tubes " this and the other thread have several examples.

Yet for example crime in the US has never been lower, yet more and more people then e er feel the need to CCW. The only thing that explains it is the incessant need to spread fear that's seems to exist today. Coupled that with 24 hour news , TV full of " CSI" stuff and you have a situation where the whole perception of reality has been utterly distorted.


Where I live, it's a fundamental tenant that, defence of a society is entrusted to a dedicated police force, many of them unarmed. I wish to see it remain that way.

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Old 26-01-2014, 19:18   #400
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I think you are deliberately trying to be provocative. I was explaining that I personally feel that " fear" is behind much of people's reaction , rather then the reality

I cruised the carribean extensively with my wife and two young daughters, please don't lecture me.

I have no problem if anyone wants to lock themselves in , I never did. What I'm concerned about is that an isolated tragic incident, is used to hype the level of fear, such that people abandon normal cruising lifestyles. The next incident will be an innocent person killed while mistakingly boarding a yacht or say a local customs or gov official.

I dont pretend the world is idyllic, I lock my car , I take extraordinary steps to ensure my firearm collection is extremely securely stored, I lock my house door at night.

It's not the locking of doors that bothers me, it's the promulgation of fear , the use of stories of rape, the mention of " your wife or daughter " , this stuff is simply stirring fear

Look at it this way, where I live in a very rural area , I can walk up the drive of any house without any fear of being mistaking attacked or shot at. ( yet every farmer has a gun round here ) , yet I met an American broken down in his hire car hearby, who was frightened to walk up to a property to ask for help for fear of being shot at. That's what a climate of fear does. Thats a bad way to develop a society.

Nowhere did I say I'm against a bit of security. I've mentioned again and again useful things to do to mitigate your exposure to petty crime. But I absolutely detest the Rambo mentality or fear mongering that these threads descend into

Dave
Sorry just replying in one go, due to time differences. But equally a few are having a " go" at me ,so I'm a robust type and like to reply !!!!

Dave
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Old 26-01-2014, 19:21   #401
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Re: St Lucia murder

Since I'm not mistakingly requoting myself , I'll slow down a bit !!!!

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Old 26-01-2014, 19:57   #402
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Re: St Lucia murder

Wow..Dave!! first.. brass seacocks are good enough for 5 years and now this!! take a break!!
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Old 26-01-2014, 20:00   #403
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St Lucia murder

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Wow..Dave!! first.. brass seacocks are good enough for 5 years and now this!! take a break!!
My wife continuously complains I'm always supporting unpopular causes ( blood sports , brass seacocks, no computers in schools ) I'm just misunderstood really.

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Old 26-01-2014, 20:03   #404
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Re: St Lucia murder

A comment on pepper spray for those unfamiliar:

It is available in liquid, gel, and foam. Don't buy the liquid as it atomizes in the air and floats around taking out all whom it contacts; when I was in Alemeda on the way south some shoplifters in a large store who were confronted by security and police escaped by spraying them with pepper - the droplets flowing through the store took out more than 20 customers and required the store be closed. Try using that down below. I have carried the gel form because it doesn't atomize. When 2 years out of date I leaned down and emptied one into the water from a foot away - no problem until the end when it sputtered out the last; I stopped as fast as I could but not soon enough - a few seconds later someone 30 feet away started to choke and cry out. Oops. They do atomize at the end, so take care. Like any weapon, practice and learn before using in anger.

And yes, they are illegal in many jurisdictions. The UK Customs took away mine (they were out of date and I was happy to see them go). Canada does not welcome them but does allow the large bear spray containers - just don't bring the self-defense versions.

I have to agree with Dave about the over-the-top weaponry discussion, and an emphasis on violence (although to be fair this is a thread about a killing after all). The most common crimes are dinghy theft, swim-aboard or similar burglary when the boat is unoccupied, and pickpocket/purse snatching. A good dinghy locking/lifting strategy, reasonably strong hatches, and awareness of the environment are the best defenses for them, not weapons. Violent attacks are rare and generally in places that are known to be dodgy so easy to avoid. An internally locked companionway prevents the sneak thieves on a boat as well as a home, and slows down any serious threat. More than that it is a bit OTT to prepare for a violent defense as it is very rarely needed. Fine to think of dual use items like dry powder fire extinguishers, or pepper spray if legal, but I have to agree that living in fear is just not the way to go cruising.

Greg
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Old 26-01-2014, 20:20   #405
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
A comment on pepper spray for those unfamiliar:

It is available in liquid, gel, and foam. Don't buy the liquid as it atomizes in the air and floats around taking out all whom it contacts; when I was in Alemeda on the way south some shoplifters in a large store who were confronted by security and police escaped by spraying them with pepper - the droplets flowing through the store took out more than 20 customers and required the store be closed. Try using that down below. I have carried the gel form because it doesn't atomize. When 2 years out of date I leaned down and emptied one into the water from a foot away - no problem until the end when it sputtered out the last; I stopped as fast as I could but not soon enough - a few seconds later someone 30 feet away started to choke and cry out. Oops. They do atomize at the end, so take care. Like any weapon, practice and learn before using in anger.

And yes, they are illegal in many jurisdictions. The UK Customs took away mine (they were out of date and I was happy to see them go). Canada does not welcome them but does allow the large bear spray containers - just don't bring the self-defense versions.

I have to agree with Dave about the over-the-top weaponry discussion, and an emphasis on violence (although to be fair this is a thread about a killing after all). The most common crimes are dinghy theft, swim-aboard or similar burglary when the boat is unoccupied, and pickpocket/purse snatching. A good dinghy locking/lifting strategy, reasonably strong hatches, and awareness of the environment are the best defenses for them, not weapons. Violent attacks are rare and generally in places that are known to be dodgy so easy to avoid. An internally locked companionway prevents the sneak thieves on a boat as well as a home, and slows down any serious threat. More than that it is a bit OTT to prepare for a violent defense as it is very rarely needed. Fine to think of dual use items like dry powder fire extinguishers, or pepper spray if legal, but I have to agree that living in fear is just not the way to go cruising.

Greg


Inferno turns to liquid on contact for a reason. There have been many incidents of someone sprayed with foam or gel scraping it off their face and throwing it back at the victim. A gel which turns to liquid on contact prevents this.



Next time try discharging under water.
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