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Old 25-01-2014, 22:32   #346
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Re: St Lucia murder

Another time I had to "supervise" a bare knuckle fight on a wharf between two cruisers - both from the USA. Pretty funny apart from the bruises and blood!
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Old 25-01-2014, 23:45   #347
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Re: St Lucia murder

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It's a classic pro-gun debating tactic to present extreme cases as the norm , hyping fear in the process. The net result is to drive ordinary people into gun shops , yet most would shoot their foot off before they'd hit the intruder.

It's just a classic reduco al absurdum argument

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I know more than a few gun owners. None of them are missing feet.

You speak of the hyperbole of others? Absurdum?
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Old 26-01-2014, 03:31   #348
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Re: St Lucia murder

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The crime rate within 10 feet of my "ghetto" property has dropped off significantly over the past year, but that's most likely because the neighborhood dregs see me leaving the house in camo carrying a locked rifle case or crossbow on my way to the range a couple of times a week.
Camo makes you scary, ? , ok , here it's just gets you banned from bars ! , but as you say , of its the case that carrying various gun cases to the range, scares the bad guys, there ain't going to be crime around me for 1000 years !!!!!!!!!!

Anyway gone shooting this morning


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Old 26-01-2014, 05:32   #349
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Let me counter , having sailed to many of various places cruisers go, act sensibly , don't flaunt wealth, be sympathetic to the locals , not a crass tourist. Be aware of your surroundings. If you feel uncomfortable , if possible leave, otherwise be vigilant.

Take sensible precautions , most crime is petty. Do not put yourself into obvious danger. The world is generally a safe place. Occasionally bad things happen, there's not much you can really do.

Do not adopt a fortress mentality.

Do not think that simply acquiring " certain " defensive items in fact actually gives you any security. A false sense of security is worse then none.

The planet is a beautiful and amazing place, enjoy it.

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That's all great advice, Dave, right up to the point where you suggest passive surrender to criminal invaders, because they probably won't hurt you. That's were we split wakes.
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Old 26-01-2014, 05:53   #350
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Re: St Lucia murder

Notice that Dave says a lot of what not to do: dont secure you boat, dont defend yourself, dont have pepper spray, etc etc.

But he never has a positive remark on what is a good idea to do. Apart from leave a few days after you work out a place is dodgy.

You havent been cruising for a long time, nor in areas like this, nor where your friends are getting chooped up and people you know of are getting killed.
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Old 26-01-2014, 06:05   #351
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Re: St Lucia murder

I bet some on this thread don't get invited to pot lucks, just way too much danger to the person in the dinghy doing the inviting.
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Old 26-01-2014, 06:59   #352
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Re: St Lucia murder

I find it incredible that anyone should try to encourage us or suggest it makes sense to just leave our boats ¨wide open¨at nite in known problem areas, very odd??? I would like to see boat manufactuers provide better, well thought out security on new boats as standard, the extra cost would be minimal!
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Old 26-01-2014, 07:00   #353
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Re: St Lucia murder

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I bet some on this thread don't get invited to pot lucks, just way too much danger to the person in the dinghy doing the inviting.
No... it's just the opposite. Plenty of invites and lot's of invitations going out. Apparently, confidence in one's self is an attractive feature.

I'm going to take this one step further and say that nearly ALL of the fellow cruisers I've met between the UK and the Med have been confident self-starters, physicians, many former military, most were tradesman eg: carpenter, handymen or individuals who had leadership positions in large companies. Contrary to the forum view that most are "60yr old scared white guys" and their scared wives.
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Old 26-01-2014, 07:02   #354
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Re: St Lucia murder

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I find it incredible that anyone should try to encourage us or suggest it makes sense to just leave our boats ¨wide open¨at nite in known problem areas, very odd??? I would like to see boat manufactuers provide better, well thought out security on new boats as standard, the extra cost would be minimal!

Yes, but I bet the marketing guy's would have a fit, can't do anything to suppose sailing to be anything but an easy care free lifestyle can we?
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Old 26-01-2014, 09:13   #355
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Yes, but I bet the marketing guy's would have a fit, can't do anything to suppose sailing to be anything but an easy care free lifestyle can we?
Thats a good point, however, with the amount of TV & media coverage I dont think you can get away or hide what happened to Mr & Mrs Pratt in St Lucia or indeed what has been going on off the coasts of Somalia & beyond for the past decade or more,they even made a film (Mr Philips with Tom Hanks)!

This may not sit well with all on here & I know some are still in love with the romantic side of cruising, the harsh reality is that there are a lot of bad people out there who are desperate for different reasons and potentially will harm you if they can & you are unlucky, to get what they want & need.............It may be 1 million to one chance that it happen to you, but do you like me buy a lottery ticket and hope you win the jackpot? what are the odds of winning.........or indeed losing?
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Old 26-01-2014, 09:45   #356
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Re: St Lucia murder

Lotteries are for the mathematical challenged!
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Old 26-01-2014, 10:07   #357
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Re: St Lucia murder

So? for me basically the best way to avoid troubles is to avoid the spot in question, and the Jail style door from MarkJ is a very good way to deter bad guys , we dont carry guns because we dont visit bad spots, and because in the past we have lots of troubles with guns and customs, is simple ,stay way from tricky places , no sense to stop in a place where 1 or 2 cruisers are murdered in the past, and if you are forced to stop there due bad weather or a emergency , lock yourself in the boat, and keep as many lights on as posible, we sleep many times with cockpit and saloon lights on and sometimes with the FM radio on with the volume low, and in a couple of times with spreaders lights on to, thx to led bulbs.
So far so good never a problem.
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Old 26-01-2014, 10:10   #358
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Re: St Lucia murder

I don't really like to comment on these defense threads. I don't care if you have gun, want a gun, knife, pepper spray. I just don't understand the part when people say that the person or criminal is boarding their boat with the intent of petty crime. Of course the criminal that gets caught boarding a boat or after a crime will say it was to steal something small. Like food for his family. Otherwise he will go to jail for a long time. I even read one about a crook with an assault weapon that was just there to steal the dingy. Are you kidding me. I will assume that anyone illegally entering my house, boat or car is planning the worse and until I know better will be treated as a deadly threat to myself or family.
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Old 26-01-2014, 10:19   #359
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Re: St Lucia murder

If no one see a local dude on crack better dont say nothing, i see a guy high on crack in a local Mc Donalds destroying all the furniture , chairs , tables, customers running away until the cops arrive, how you know if the guy is not in dope and desperate for cash??
I will rate almost all the bad locals in the windwards and leeward islands as dangerous, you never know if is just for a fender or padle or for cash at any price, include your life..
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Old 26-01-2014, 10:40   #360
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Ok, so to be clear I had all the good stuff, bars, spray etc on a previous boat.

My question about this incident is did the attackers make demands and were they refused? I think I read he was trying to defend his wife or some such. Were they seriously interested in some 60 something bird in that way?

It would seem to me just giving them what they want as far as money and shiny bits and bobs is a better way to go than telling them to bugger off and getting knifed.
So one might think. But rape and torture are about power, not about sexual allure. We don't know the details about this one, but it's clear from some reports of more brutal attacks that the thieves had issues they wanted to work out on the bodies of the "affluent Westerners" in their home waters that went well beyond nicking a pair of Steiners and a wad of local currency.

Apparently, in the movie "Captain Phillips", the Somali chief hijacker's line "Look at me. I'm the captain now" was improvised. But it has the ring of truth, that some smart, scrawny little bugger with a gun from a miserable, impoverished strip of dirt who finally has the upper hand on a figure from the dominant culture would say such a thing.

I would imagine the very same line has been uttered on a few boarded yachts. Disturbing and horrible as that may be to contemplate.
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