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Old 25-01-2014, 19:25   #331
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Re: St Lucia murder

"Yeah, it never happens. Where is the peer-reviewed study?"
This is just the first page, it goes on and on. Just the elderly, in this search.

<LI class=b_algo> Elderly couple looks to move after violent home invasion ...

www.actionnewsjax.com/news/national/story/Elderly-couple...home/...
ATLANTA -- An elderly couple said they are too terrified to stay in their home of 47 years after a violent home invasion last week. WSB-TV Channel 2's Craig Lucie ...

<LI class=b_algo> Three arrested for Warren Co. home invasion shooting | The ...



www.clarionledger.com/article/20140118/NEWS/...
Jan 18, 2014 Three men have been charged with attempted murder of an elderly couple in Warren Co. during a home invasion Tuesday night, …


<LI class=b_algo> Kentwood couple killed during home invasion - Grand Rapids ...

www.examiner.com/article/kentwood-couple-killed-during-home-invasion
An elderly Kentwood couple was found murdered in their home on the morning of Saturday, Jan. 7, 2012. Investigators found 81-year old David Bouwman and 80-year

<LI class=b_algo> 'They were loved' say friends of Kentwood couple murdered ...

www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/01/they_were_loved...
Jan 06, 2013 Police have released few details about the double murder, ... The car was stolen after the home invasion, ... The couple was getting ready to visit Florida.

<LI class=b_algo> ELDERLY COUPLE IN TULSA BEATEN, RAPED AND KILLED IN HOME ...

www.sodahead.com/united-states/elderly-couple-in-tulsa-beaten...
Mar 31, 2012 Home invasion: Bob and Nancy Strait were both attacked when burglars broke into their home in Tulsa. Mrs Strait died of her injuries. Mr Strait, who served ...


<LI class=b_algo> Toronto snowbirds found slain in Florida home | Canada ...

www.torontosun.com/2013/01/11/elderly-canadian-couple...florida-home
A retired Toronto couple has been brutally slain at their winter home in south Florida.

<LI class=b_algo> Investigators say couple found slain in Kentwood ...

www.mlive.com/.../2013/01/investigators_say_couple_found.html
Jan 06, 2013 KENTWOOD, MI — Investigators in Kentwood said an elderly couple found slain in their home on Saturday were the victims of an apparent home invasion ...

<LI class=b_algo> Porn, Baby Oil Found at Scene of Elderly Wife Homicide ...

www.nbcphiladelphia.com › newslocal
May 07, 2013 A murder investigation into an elderly woman's killing, allegedly at the hands of her elderly husband just took a bizarre set of turns. Sex could be the ...

<LI class=b_algo> Elderly couple killed in home invasion in Kentwood ...

www.wzzm13.com/rss/article/237758/313/UPDATE-Double-murder-in...
Elderly couple killed in home invasion in ... say an elderly couple was murdered during a home invasion and they need your ... the news of Bouwman's murders.



<LI class=b_algo> Elderly couple killed in home invasion in Kentwood ...

www.wzzm13.com/rss/article/237758/313/UPDATE-Double-murder-in...
Elderly couple killed in home invasion in ... say an elderly couple was murdered during a home invasion and they need your ... the news of Bouwman's murders.

<LI class=b_algo> Photos released of those arrested in Warren Co. home ...

www.wmctv.com/.../three-arrested-in-warren-county-home-invasion
Warren County Sheriff Martin Pace says he's made three arrests in a home invasion in which an elderly couple was shot. The man are charged with attempted murder, but ...

<LI class=b_algo> Man accused of beating elderly couple in home invasion ...

www.cleveland.com/.../2013/09/man_who_beat_elderly_couple_an.html
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A 21-year-old pleaded guilty today to charges stemming from a brutal July home invasion that left an elderly couple injured. Prosecutors say Ronald ...

<LI class=b_algo> Second victim dies in beating of elderly couple, as ...

www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/07/beating-suspect-could-face...
May 07, 2012 An Oklahoma man suspected in a brutal home invasion -- already facing a murder charge for allegedly killing an elderly woman -- could face additional ...

<LI class=b_algo> Suspect arrested in IE home invasion, murder of elderly ...

abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?id=9056061
Apr 07, 2013 SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (KABC) -- A suspect has been arrested in connection to the 2012 home invasion and murder of a 76-year-old woman in San …

<LI class=b_algo> Elderly couple attacked in home invasion | wtsp.com

www.wtsp.com/.../234423/82/Elderly-couple-attacked-in-home-invasion
Jan 25, 2012 Clearwater, FL -- An elderly couple was hospitalized Tuesday after they were attacked by a man who forced his way into their home and robbed them ...

<LI class=b_ans> Related searches for elderly couple home invasion florida mur




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Old 25-01-2014, 19:32   #332
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Re: St Lucia murder

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ONE Of them did? How about I post a dozen stories of totally innocent victims who did NOT?

HOW about I'll post a couple of innocents being tortured during home invasions for each one you post of a "falling out among criminals?"

Does one of yours "cancel" all of the examples of innocents being tortured during home invasions? I think not. Anyway, I think it's laughable, first the denial, and then the excuse-making. First, it didn't happen. Now, maybe it only happened among crooks. What's next, this elderly couple had it coming, just a few days ago? They didn't resist. I can post these all night, and this was a mild example.

http://www.clarionledger.com/article...asion-shooting

Or are you still waiting for a "peer reviewed meta-study" before you will open your eyes and accept that the sky is, indeed, blue?
Simply repeating a couple of extreme cases as if they are commonplace ( especially outside the US )is to deny the facts. aggravated burglary is rare. Look at the carribean cruiser safety net , very few involved violence to the person , the vast majority were simple petty theft , or in more extreme cases the crew were merely restrained.

It's a classic pro-gun debating tactic to present extreme cases as the norm , hyping fear in the process. The net result is to drive ordinary people into gun shops , yet most would shoot their foot off before they'd hit the intruder.

It's just a classic reduco al absurdum argument

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Old 25-01-2014, 19:33   #333
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Re: St Lucia murder

Travis, these all all in the USA , whats your point The rest of the world is far saner !!!

Dave
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:39   #334
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pirate Re: St Lucia murder

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Yeh, but that photo is on shore, the big question is what do you wear below deck, he,he!
On the boat..? just Olive or Coconut oil.. I'm a slippery ba$*r*
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:41   #335
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Re: St Lucia murder

We began with a simple denial that home invasions (or boat invasions or restaurant late-night invasions) often involve torture for information. We are now beyond that, and into throwing insults and posting funny videos, since the argument is lost. So we're making progress.

Water is wet. The sky is blue. Folks who invade homes (or ranches or boats or convenience stores) often torture their victims into giving up any possible secreted items of compact value.

The wise sailor, who knows all about secreting compact items of value, (despite loud protestations of virginal legality at all times and all places), will take this human factor into account.

Home invaders often commit torture. Deal with it.

Or not. I could not care any less. But for every poster there are a few lurkers, some of whom might learn a new trick or two here, as OPTIONS they had not previously considered.
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:41   #336
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Re: St Lucia murder

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On the boat..? just Olive or Coconut oil.. I'm a slippery ba$*r*
My mind is reeling !!

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Old 25-01-2014, 19:59   #337
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by Travis McGee View Post
We began with a simple denial that home invasions (or boat invasions or restaurant late-night invasions) often involve torture for information. We are now beyond that, and into throwing insults and posting funny videos, since the argument is lost. So we're making progress.

Water is wet. The sky is blue. Folks who invade homes (or ranches or boats or convenience stores) often torture their victims into giving up any possible secreted items of compact value.

The wise sailor, who knows all about secreting compact items of value, (despite loud protestations of virginal legality at all times and all places), will take this human factor into account.

Home invaders often commit torture. Deal with it.

Or not. I could not care any less. But for every poster there are a few lurkers, some of whom might learn a new trick or two here, as OPTIONS they had not previously considered.
Let me counter , having sailed to many of various places cruisers go, act sensibly , don't flaunt wealth, be sympathetic to the locals , not a crass tourist. Be aware of your surroundings. If you feel uncomfortable , if possible leave, otherwise be vigilant.

Take sensible precautions , most crime is petty. Do not put yourself into obvious danger. The world is generally a safe place. Occasionally bad things happen, there's not much you can really do.

Do not adopt a fortress mentality.

Do not think that simply acquiring " certain " defensive items in fact actually gives you any security. A false sense of security is worse then none.

The planet is a beautiful and amazing place, enjoy it.

Dave
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Old 25-01-2014, 20:28   #338
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Let me counter , having sailed to many of various places cruisers go, act sensibly , don't flaunt wealth, be sympathetic to the locals , not a crass tourist. Be aware of your surroundings. If you feel uncomfortable , if possible leave, otherwise be vigilant.

Take sensible precautions , most crime is petty. Do not put yourself into obvious danger. The world is generally a safe place. Occasionally bad things happen, there's not much you can really do.

Do not adopt a fortress mentality.

Do not think that simply acquiring " certain " defensive items in fact actually gives you any security. A false sense of security is worse then none.

The planet is a beautiful and amazing place, enjoy it.

Dave
Some of what you say makes sense, however, we must face the facts that the world is a changing place both on land & sea, and that there are bad people out there who have become more bold in thier actions towards cruisers.......Its surely common sense now to at least lock a grid & give yourself night time security???
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Old 25-01-2014, 20:44   #339
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Some of what you say makes sense, however, we must face the facts that the world is a changing place both on land & sea, and that there are bad people out there who have become more bold in thier actions towards cruisers.......Its surely common sense now to at least lock a grid & give yourself night time security???
Well the evidence in first world countries is that crime of the type we might expect to encounter is actually falling, and sure certain places especially those hit by the recent recession can have crime spikes. But there is no general evidence that the world is on some sort of downward spiral. Even the homicide rate in the US is falling !!

What we do have is an almost instantaneous news service , that feeds information to people from all over the world, a news and TV service that thrives on sensationalism and " shock" value. The result is a climate of fear , that's what's spreading , not the actual crime.

No I see no need to barricade myself into my boat.
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Old 25-01-2014, 21:00   #340
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Re: St Lucia murder

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What we do have is an almost instantaneous news service , that feeds information to people from all over the world, a news and TV service that thrives on sensationalism and " shock" value. The result is a climate of fear , that's what's spreading , not the actual crime.

No I see no need to barricade myself into my boat.
Here in our Massachusetts city of 60,000, we have multiple armed robberies and burgalries each week along with a half dozen murders per year... All within a kilometer of our house. Dave, I can post the local headlines from this past week if you like? I'd have to say that it's the actual crime that's spreading and the criminals are getting bolder. Our firsthand experience seems to differ from your stats.

I'm going to keep locking the front door... Just in case.
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Old 25-01-2014, 21:02   #341
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Here in our Massachusetts city of 60,000, we have multiple armed robberies and burgalries each week along with a half dozen murders per year... All within a kilometer of our house. Dave, I can post the local headlines from this past week if you like? I'd have to say that it's the actual crime that's spreading and the criminals are getting bolder. Our firsthand experience seems to differ from your stats.

I'm going to keep locking the front door... Just in case.
I omit what's happening in the US from any sane discussion, it's out there on its own !!!

Irrespective, US crime is generally falling at the moment, even if, it seems , you are living in a ghetto !!

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Old 25-01-2014, 21:10   #342
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Re: St Lucia murder

"It's a classic pro-gun debating tactic to present extreme cases as the norm , hyping fear in the process. The net result is to drive ordinary people into gun shops , "


"yet most would shoot their foot off before they'd hit the intruder. "

It seems you use your own tactic. I am 70 years old, have known hundreds of gun owners, and have never known of a gun owner shooting his foot off.
It seems you use the tactic you denounce.
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Old 25-01-2014, 21:12   #343
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Re: St Lucia murder

Seems to me there is a real opportunity for cruisers to become collectively more proactive in improving their security within the popular Caribbean destinations.

I think we could learn something from the way the commercial guys have eventually reduced piracy incidents offshore of Somalia… which is a much tougher nut to crack.

Basically the power of economics and vested interests need to be globally made aware that they need to help their customers

1… Yacht manufacturer and suppliers start by creating a “Cruiser’s Safety Circle” (CSC). Annual membership fees are charged to each participating yacht owner.

2… CSC Admin lobbies the various State Departments and local Governments with the graphic photos of cruiser attacks and WARN… Either they become very proactive in protecting these marine tourists, or their location will be publically blacklisted worldwide.

3… CSC develops a standardized training and communication program for participating “Safe Haven” communities to provide armed patrols by their local safety officers at popular anchorages.

4… CSC Control provides at cost to “members only” security updates of their planned cruising itinerary and a hidden panic button installation that universally alerts both locally and at headquarters to the identity and location of a member under attack

Many other ideas to give members real value for their support (as DAN does) but the most important message to the world is that we are no longer isolated and helpless.

I would support this
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Old 25-01-2014, 21:22   #344
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Irrespective, US crime is generally falling at the moment, even if, it seems , you are living in a ghetto !!

Dave
The crime rate within 10 feet of my "ghetto" property has dropped off significantly over the past year, but that's most likely because the neighborhood dregs see me leaving the house in camo carrying a locked rifle case or crossbow on my way to the range a couple of times a week.
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Old 25-01-2014, 21:41   #345
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Re: St Lucia murder

All those stories from Travis mean that less international cruisers will visit the USA.

The only violence we ever received was from a drunken US ex-military cruiser, which confirms it.
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