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Old 25-01-2014, 18:40   #316
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Re: St Lucia murder

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The ATF says the steel insert is NOT a gun. No paperwork is required. It would disappear in a parts bin. Just an idea. I tossed 3 Ruger products overboard the day prior when forced to make an unscheduled fuel stop in Mexico. Some places, hiding a real gun is not worth the candle. But a 4" steel tube might be a different consideration.

Kennesaw Cannon Company .45LC/410 Gauge Barrel Insert for 26.5mm Flare Guns, Legally Shoot .410 Bore Shotshells and .45 Colt Ammunition In European Flare Guns#

$60. Czech milsurp 26.5mm flare gun another $100, including red star shell flares, totally innocuous in any ditch bag.
Since the ATF have zero influence outside the US , where inside the US a decent calibre handgun could be carried, what's the point of your post.

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Old 25-01-2014, 18:46   #317
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Since the ATF have zero influence outside the US , where inside the US a decent calibre handgun could be carried, what's the point of your post.

Dave
The point of the post is to make some folks aware of another option they might not have been aware of. That's what this thread has become, a boat defense thread, at least the past few days. But while the ATF doesn't hold sway outside the USA, they do here, and they allow the selling of the insert to anybody. A foreigner visiting the USA, desiring some form of defensive weapon, might take the opportunity. And it's true that each country has different laws, so ones approach regarding weapons and firearms must be very adaptable and flexible, with high points for innocuous items that would go unnoticed while clearing in. There are many places the steel insert might be taken that nobody in his right mind would take a Glock. But given a choice between defending my cockpit with a knife, machete or a single-shot .45 Long Colt, I'd start with the .45 and work backward with the machete.

If I couldn't bring a Glock. In the Bahamas, I can. Other places, no way, Jose.
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Old 25-01-2014, 18:46   #318
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Re: St Lucia murder

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You sound as if you have lived a very sheltered life, as is your right.
In Mexico and Latin America, it is taken for granted based on frequent sad examples that this is true. It happens also in the USA, and usually the victims are murdered so the exact sequence of events of home invasion, torture, execution must be extrapolated. But sometimes there is a survivor.

Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Brad, Aaron and Jason and the two girls should have fought back, instead of "hoping for the best" like you counsel. They would have had a fighting chance at many junctures, but all five young adults seemed to have been paralyzed by fear.

I can post stories like this all night long that never appeared at all on national news, which is why you never heard of them.
Leaving aside crazy USA examples. Back up your claim with facts. Secondly we are not talking about Latin America , we are talking about common and typical cruising areas. You piece reads like an NRA propaganda article.

I stand by my comments and believe you me, Ive seen my unfair share of violence.


People are spouting complete bullshit , quite frankly , about " fight back etc". The vast majority of cruisers are typically white middle class people. People that , certainly like this British couple, will never see a gun in their lifetime , nor will they be exposed to any kind of violence , other then a little pushing and shoving to hear the Queens speech .

To suggest that these types of people can successfully deploy aggressive tactics , early in the sequence of events is simply pure nonsense

You sir, are watching too many Rambo movies.

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Old 25-01-2014, 18:51   #319
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St Lucia murder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis McGee View Post
The point of the post is to make some folks aware of another option they might not have been aware of. That's what this thread has become, a boat defense thread, at least the past few days. But while the ATF doesn't hold sway outside the USA, they do here, and they allow the selling of the insert to anybody. A foreigner visiting the USA, desiring some form of defensive weapon, might take the opportunity. And it's true that each country has different laws, so ones approach regarding weapons and firearms must be very adaptable and flexible, with high points for innocuous items that would go unnoticed while clearing in. There are many places the steel insert might be taken that nobody in his right mind would take a Glock. But given a choice between defending my cockpit with a knife, machete or a single-shot .45 Long Colt, I'd start with the .45 and work backward with the machete.

If I couldn't bring a Glock. In the Bahamas, I can. Other places, no way, Jose.
You must be mad suggesting a foreigner illegally bring or acquire ammunition in the USA. Doubly so in other countries where the possession of illegal ammunition is a serious crime ( as typically are pepper sprays, crossbows, machetes , etc etc )

such suggestions are of little or no use to they" average " cruiser. Suggesting that cruisers engage in some " cat and mouse " game with customs, is ridiculous and to say the least , irresponsible

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Old 25-01-2014, 19:00   #320
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
You must be mad suggesting a foreigner illegally bring or acquire ammunition in the USA. Doubly so in other countries where the possession of illegal ammunition is a serious crime ( as typically are pepper sprays, crossbows, machetes , etc etc )

such suggestions are of little or no use to they" average " cruiser. Suggesting that cruisers engage in some " cat and mouse " game with customs, is ridiculous and to say the least , irresponsible

Dave
It's an OPTION Dave. I'm not suggesting anybody do anything at all. It's an OPTION. I also have a compound bow. It's an OPTION. Strong "bear strength" pepper spray and archery bows and hunting arrows are illegal in some places. Does that mean you only have items on your boat that are legal everywhere, always? Really?

Jeez, mention an OPTION, and the folks on this site practically faint dead away. No wonder surrender is the most popular option.
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:03   #321
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Re: St Lucia murder

Give up Dave.

Watch this and savor the irony:


"Plinking"

With something that can kill from 1-2 miles away.
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:03   #322
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Re: St Lucia murder

The thread has now rather lost its way! Lets ask this question, do we think in areas where there have been incidents or are considered to have some sort of risk to cruisers that its a good idea to have some sort of security in some shape or form (Mine would certainly be to lock myself in at bedtime) and have a switch inside that could switch on outside lights as well as a loud alarm! OR.....do you still think to hell with it, im going to leave everything open and take my chances....that surely is the debate?????
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:10   #323
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Re: St Lucia murder

I noticed at least one of your bing "victims" had $10,000 in cocaine in his freezer. I would imagine most of these cases involve personal disputes or bad drug deals/ grudges.
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:10   #324
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by Travis McGee View Post
It's an OPTION Dave. I'm not suggesting anybody do anything at all. It's an OPTION. I also have a compound bow. It's an OPTION. Strong "bear strength" pepper spray and archery bows and hunting arrows are illegal in some places. Does that mean you only have items on your boat that are legal everywhere, always? Really?

Jeez, mention an OPTION, and the grannies on this site practically faint dead away. No wonder surrender is the most popular option.
I despair when these threads degenerate away from practical deterrents , like guards on the companion ways , lights , sirens, all of which are useful, into nonsense debates about tomahawks, flare gun inserts and other silliness. Very few people have the skill and muscle memory to deploy such violence in advance of violence on them. Those are the facts ( and its why guns are useful as they allow a response at a distance )

The fact is if you want an aggressive defensive position. Then simply , license ( if you have to) , and carry a stainless Mossberg pump. Declare it as required, Simple and effective. However depending on where you are , you may not have it , when you really need it.

The fact is violence , especially severe violence against cruisers is rare , in fact very rare. yes it may happen , but just like being run down crossing the road, **** happens. To suggest we all change our tactics because of a rare and tragic event is really ridiculous. I'm all in favour of sensible strategies aimed at minimising ones exposure, but we are descending into the ridiculous when you suggest everyone going to be killed or raped etc.

And yes I do not carry anything intentionally and knowing illegal on my boat , period.

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Old 25-01-2014, 19:13   #325
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by vtsailguy View Post
Give up Dave.

Watch this and savor the irony:


"Plinking"

With something that can kill from 1-2 miles away.
I'm not sure what you mean , I target shoot , I have far better and more accurate gear then that.

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Old 25-01-2014, 19:21   #326
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Re: St Lucia murder

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I noticed at least one of your bing "victims" had $10,000 in cocaine in his freezer. I would imagine most of these cases involve personal disputes or bad drug deals/ grudges.

ONE Of them did? How about I post a dozen stories of totally innocent victims who did NOT?

HOW about I'll post a couple of innocents being tortured during home invasions for each one you post of a "falling out among criminals?"

Does one of yours "cancel" all of the examples of innocents being tortured during home invasions? I think not. Anyway, I think it's laughable, first the denial, and then the excuse-making. First, it didn't happen. Now, maybe it only happened among crooks. What's next, this elderly couple had it coming, just a few days ago? They didn't resist. I can post these all night, and this was a mild example.

http://www.clarionledger.com/article...asion-shooting

Or are you still waiting for a "peer reviewed meta-study" before you will open your eyes and accept that the sky is, indeed, blue?
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:21   #327
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pirate Re: St Lucia murder

Lotta mano e mano BS being thrown around...
Seems folk are pretty quick to cast judgements around... apparently I can't find ladies to sail with me coz I'm chicken.. courtesy of a pseudo Viking... such a macho avatar ..
A wanna be Rambo who's likely struts round in high heels and a cowboy hat.. till he gets to his boat, dons his little peaked hat.. bet its got gold braid.. and calls himself a Captain..
Keep it coming boys...
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:24   #328
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Re: St Lucia murder

there seems to be a sort of law on this forum, as inevitable and unavoidable as the laws of gravity, that any discussion of security concerns of any kind in any place no matter what the context, eventually turns into a gun thread.
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Old 25-01-2014, 19:24   #329
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by pablothesailor View Post
The thread has now rather lost its way! Lets ask this question, do we think in areas where there have been incidents or are considered to have some sort of risk to cruisers that its a good idea to have some sort of security in some shape or form (Mine would certainly be to lock myself in at bedtime) and have a switch inside that could switch on outside lights as well as a loud alarm! OR.....do you still think to hell with it, im going to leave everything open and take my chances....that surely is the debate?????
Personally , I think flashing spreader lights and a loud siren are about the best measures that can be deployed.

Hatch security and being locked in , is a personal decision , I certainly never do it. If I have to barricade myself into a boat , then I have no wish to sail there in the first place.

The primarily problem is that if you ( ie an ordinary family man) has to deal with aggressive boarders, who have an element of surprise, then very few people have much chance of defending themselves, unless they can deploy a firearm at a distance. Close infighting is simply totally foreign to most people , yet it may be commonplace to your attackers. That puts you at a significant disadvantage.

In reality most people, in fact nearly everyone, does not aggressively fight back and tends to react way to late to the attackers aggression. Thankfully in most cases, robbery is purely the motive, not bodily harm.

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Old 25-01-2014, 19:25   #330
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Re: St Lucia murder

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Lotta mano e mano BS being thrown around...
Seems folk are pretty quick to cast judgements around... apparently I can't find ladies to sail with me coz I'm chicken.. courtesy of a pseudo Viking... such a macho avatar ..
A wanna be Rambo who's likely struts round in high heels and a cowboy hat.. till he gets to his boat, dons his little peaked hat.. bet its got gold braid.. and calls himself a Captain..
Keep it coming boys...
<<<<<<<< That's me on the left..
Yeh, but that photo is on shore, the big question is what do you wear below deck, he,he!
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